Alanis Morissette: Anger, Attachment, & Postpartum

Episode of Call Her Daddy · September 9, 2026 · 1 h 5 min

Alanis Morissette tells Alex Cooper about her 1990s breakthrough, industry misogyny, attachment wounds, postpartum depression and the freedom of menopause.

Summary

Alanis Morissette joined Alex Cooper on Call Her Daddy to revisit her early career and the reception of Jagged Little Pill. Morissette described starting to write songs at nine, launching a small record company with a friend at eleven because labels would not sign children, and signing contracts at fourteen surrounded by rooms of men in suits whose language and terms she did not understand. She said she burned a teenage journal for fear of exposure and characterized the industry of that era as marked by extraction, exploitation and a hatred of the feminine, recalling that radio stations would decline to play her songs because they were already playing Sinéad O'Connor or Tori Amos.

Morissette explained her decision to release "You Oughta Know" as the lead single rather than "Ironic" or "Hand in My Pocket" as a deliberate choice to open with anger, and credited producer Glen Ballard with encouraging her not to censor the song's explicit lyric. She said she had been called "too much" her entire life and had been labeled the "angry white female" by Rolling Stone, and that she processed painful criticism, including public attacks from other artists, through therapy and parts work. She also recounted discovering that a former business manager had stolen from her, describing repeated attempts to obtain financial information before her husband noticed inconsistencies in the paperwork.

Turning to relationships, Morissette described being "raised in narcissism," a survival strategy of other-focus, and an attraction to narcissistic partners that she framed using Harville Hendrix's Keeping the Love You Find. She said she married her husband at 35 by deliberately going against type. She spoke at length about postpartum depression, which she called "postpartum activity," saying it worsened with each child, involved invasive thoughts and a dip into psychosis while touring during COVID, and cost her some people's trust in her sanity. She argued that the remedy is communal support for new mothers.

The conversation closed on aging and menopause, which Morissette likened to a tree being ripped out of the ground, and on her forthcoming Los Angeles residency Butterfly with a Machete and a Christmas album including "To an Empathic Christmastime" and "Christmas on the Dance Floor." She said her current goal for women is wholeness rather than wellness.

Chapters

0:11
Legacy and new generations
Morissette reflects on the 1995 release of Jagged Little Pill, why fan response kept her in the public eye, and mentoring younger artists such as Olivia Rodrigo.
3:44
The 1990s, fashion and Sex and the City
She recalls what she misses about the decade, her archived clothes, and pitching the idea for Carrie Bradshaw's kiss on Sex and the City.
6:23
Starting a record company at eleven
Morissette describes writing songs at nine, being told by labels that children weren't signed, and her parents' role in building her confidence.
9:05
Men in suits and industry misogyny
She describes signing contracts at fourteen, burning her journal, and the exploitation and hatred of the feminine she encountered in the business.
15:22
Rage, predation and being called mature for her age
Morissette distinguishes anger from rage, explains the freeze response, and discusses how adults justified predatory behavior toward young women.
18:53
The stolen millions
She recounts sensing something was wrong with her finances, pressing her business managers repeatedly, and speaking at the sentencing hearing.
21:06
Choosing 'You Oughta Know' and leading with anger
Morissette explains why the angriest song became the first single, the label's reaction, and Glen Ballard's support for the uncensored lyric.
26:28
Fame, criticism and inner work
She discusses fame as amplifier rather than cure, hate directed at her in the 90s, and using parts work to process labels like 'fake'.
33:51
Attachment, narcissism and codependency
Morissette links her childhood to an absence of self, describes attraction to narcissists, and how she broke the pattern before marrying at 35.
43:32
Postpartum depression across three children
She details worsening postpartum episodes, invasive thoughts, touring through psychosis, and argues that communal care for mothers is the solution.
54:01
Aging and menopause as truth serum
Morissette describes reduced reactivity, blurting out honest reactions in meetings, and menopause as a total uprooting of identity.
58:29
Butterfly with a Machete, a Christmas album, and wholeness
She explains her new LA residency, the holiday record she recorded, and her wish that women pursue wholeness rather than wellness.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

Alanis Morissette
Morissette says fan response to her music gave her, as an introvert, a reason to remain in the public eye.
“I saw quickly that people were using this music in a way that felt inspiring for me to stay in the public eye as an introvert”
Listen from 1:43 · Jagged Little Pill
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says no group of older women mentors appeared to support her in the mid-1990s.
“Like, will there be some mentor, some group of women who kind of rush in and scoop me up? And the answer was a hard no”
Listen from 3:18 · Misogyny in the music industry
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says she approached the Sex and the City producers with the idea of Carrie having a same-sex kiss and they had independently had the same thought.
“reached out to them and I said, might it be a nice time for Carrie to experience a lesbian moment?”
Listen from 5:28 · Sex and the City
Linked moment · 7:42Skip to 7:42 using a listen link in the info box.
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says she formed a record company with a friend at age 11 because labels of that era would not sign children.
“And so I basically started a record company with my friend Lindsay and we put it out on the record company at, I was 11”
Listen from 7:42 · Misogyny in the music industry
Alanis Morissette
Morissette credits her parents with instilling confidence by telling her she could do anything.
“My parents knocked the confidence one out of the park. Definitely saying you can do anything you want”
Listen from 8:03 · Misogyny in the music industry
Alanis Morissette
Morissette recalls being overwhelmed by rooms of a dozen men in suits and not understanding the contracts she signed at fourteen.
“Just a room full of, you know, 12 men in suits. And I just remember being really overwhelmed. Like, I didn't even know what the word publishing meant”
Listen from 9:17 · Misogyny in the music industry
Alanis Morissette
Morissette characterizes the executives she dealt with as lacking empathy and hating the feminine, not only women.
“there was no attunement or empathy, a lot of personality disorders, a lot of misogyny, a lot of just hate of the feminine, not just women”
Listen from 13:49 · Misogyny in the music industry
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says radio stations of the era declined her songs on the grounds that they were already playing another woman artist.
“if we called a radio station to see if they would play one of my songs, they would say, we can't play it. We're playing Sinead”
Listen from 14:55 · Misogyny in the music industry
Alanis Morissette
Morissette distinguishes anger, which she calls beautiful, from rage, which she views as a sign of trauma.
“I think anger is beautiful. I think rage is trauma. If we're raging, we're traumatized”
Listen from 16:02 · Anger as activism
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says men call young women wise beyond their years in order to justify predatory sexual behavior.
“Why they tell a young person that they're poised and wise beyond their years to justify their sexual predatory actions?”
Listen from 16:46 · Anger as activism
Alex Cooper
Cooper argues that adults present in those rooms should have recognized the power imbalance and protected young women.
“And at some point, you also wish that there were adults in those rooms who would recognize the obvious power imbalance and help the young woman understand that that is not a compliment”
Listen from 17:56 · Misogyny in the music industry
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says she repeatedly pressed her new business managers for financial information because her intuition told her something was wrong.
“into the new business manager's office over and over and saying, I need more information because something's up and I don't know what”
Listen from 19:15 · Misogyny in the music industry
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says she insisted on releasing 'You Oughta Know' first rather than 'Ironic' or 'Hand in My Pocket' because she had too much energy to lead with anything else.
“And I remember thinking, no, we just have to just put You Oughta Know out and then we talk. Because I had too much rajas”
Listen from 22:01 · You Oughta Know
Alanis Morissette
Morissette recalls her label calling the record caustic and her retort that they should sign Steely Dan if they wanted that kind of album.
“when they first got the record, they said, this is a little caustic. It's a little intense for us. And I said, well, if you want a Dan Steely record, why don't you sign a Dan Steely?”
Listen from 22:31 · You Oughta Know
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says Glen Ballard encouraged her not to censor the explicit lyric in 'You Oughta Know'.
“there was a moment while writing you ought to know where i thought oh i'll just let's just write it don't edit don't censor as always”
Listen from 25:53 · You Oughta Know
Alanis Morissette
Morissette argues that fame has shifted from being a means to an end to being pursued as an end in itself, and that it amplifies existing pain and trauma.
“fame used to be a means to an end, Joni Mitchell or commentary on the Vietnam War. Like it was a means to an end. Now fame is the end”
Listen from 27:12 · Fame
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says she faced severe hostility in the 1990s, including websites devoted to how to kill her.
“There were websites constructed to figure out how to murder me most elegantly”
Listen from 29:44 · Fame
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says respected fellow artists disparaged her publicly and that Sinéad O'Connor later apologized.
“a lot of artists whom I respected and lived for were disparagingly speaking about me. Later, Sinead apologized, which was really classy”
Listen from 30:03 · Fame
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says she examines only the criticisms that trigger her, using them as material for shadow work.
“I think Courtney Love was calling me fake, which is so funny. And she also apologized later and said very kind things”
Listen from 30:43 · Fame
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says being raised in narcissism left her without a felt sense of self and oriented toward serving others.
“Raised in narcissism, my existence meant beholding other, being supply for narcissism. I don't even exist. There's not even a person here”
Listen from 34:43 · Narcissism
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says that as an empath she was drawn to narcissistic partners and cites Harville Hendrix's book on unconscious attraction.
“I was attracted to narcissism, shocker. And as an empath, we tend to be a magnet for narcissists. It's not uncommon. And there's a beautiful book called Keeping the Love You Find by Harville Hendrix”
Listen from 39:26 · Codependency and love addiction
Alanis Morissette
Morissette describes the toll of codependency as total self-annihilation followed by years of recovery.
“A complete self-annihilation and obliteration and years of coming back into who you barely were before you began”
Listen from 40:31 · Codependency and love addiction
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says she calls it postpartum activity because it involved invasive thoughts, anxiety and rage alongside depression.
“Invasive thoughts, anxiety, depression, rage, off the charts. I felt completely out of control”
Listen from 44:57 · Postpartum depression
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says she sought help progressively faster after each birth, waiting over a year the first time and three days the third.
“first time i waited a year and two months second time i waited eight months and third time i think i waited three days”
Listen from 48:00 · Postpartum depression
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says she toured while experiencing postpartum psychosis and was called crazy by people in the business.
“but i still showed up like i was i dipped into psychosis it was a wild ride”
Listen from 48:46 · Postpartum depression
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says the hardest loss during postpartum depression was other people's trust in her sanity.
“And the bummer for me inside PPD was that I was losing people's trust in my sanity”
Listen from 50:15 · Postpartum depression
Alanis Morissette
Morissette argues the solution for new mothers is communal care and honoring the female endocrine system as a spiritual practice.
“the solve for women is us going back to how we used to live. which is honoring the female endocrine system as a spiritual fricking practice”
Listen from 51:21 · Postpartum depression
Alex Cooper
Cooper observes that every woman she has interviewed has described peace and beauty in aging despite cultural fixation on youth.
“Ironically, every single woman that I have had sit in that chair has talked about the beauty and actually the peace that comes with aging”
Listen from 54:31 · Menopause
Alanis Morissette
Morissette describes menopause as an uprooting of the whole tree rather than a turning of individual leaves.
“No, for me, it feels like the tree itself was ripped out of the ground and the roots are everywhere and like, good luck”
Listen from 56:08 · Menopause
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says aging has made her far less reactive and left more room for vulnerability and power.
“For me, my reactivity has gotten less and less and less. Like almost there's just more room for humanity”
Listen from 57:06 · Menopause
Alanis Morissette
Morissette contrasts the 1990s demand that women stay in one lane with her current aim to express multiple intelligences on stage.
“the credo was stay in your lane and especially if you're a woman, stay in the reductive one, whatever one we ascribe to you, stay in that one”
Listen from 59:23 · Butterfly with a Machete (residency)
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says the residency is built around grappling with her 'too muchness' and learning, with Anne Randolph's help, that her stories matter.
“The whole show is about me grappling with the too muchness and telling stories that I didn't care about stories because I didn't care about myself”
Listen from 1:00:08 · Butterfly with a Machete (residency)
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says her holiday record grew from annual one-off songs and includes two new originals.
“So a song called To an Empathic Christmastime and a song called Christmas on the Dance Floor”
Listen from 1:01:19 · Christmas album
Alanis Morissette
Morissette says she now wants women to pursue wholeness rather than wellness, including reclaiming denied parts of themselves.
“seeing wholeness as a goal versus wellness. And wholeness isn't always the prettiest, most linear path”
Listen from 1:02:42 · Menopause

People

In the conversation

Alex CooperAmerican podcaster and media entrepreneur, host of Call Her Daddy
Alanis MorissetteCanadian-American singer-songwriter known for the 1995 album Jagged Little Pill

Discussed

Olivia RodrigoAmerican singer-songwriter who performed 'Ironic' on stage with Morissette
Glen BallardAmerican producer and co-writer of Jagged Little Pill
Sinéad O'ConnorIrish singer-songwriter who Morissette said later apologized to her
Tori AmosAmerican singer-songwriter cited as a 1990s radio rival
Courtney LoveAmerican musician who Morissette said called her fake and later apologized
Taylor SwiftAmerican singer-songwriter cited as an example of public love-and-hate cycles
Harville HendrixAmerican relationship therapist and author of Keeping the Love You Find
Shirley MansonGarbage frontwoman who toured with Morissette during COVID
Anne RandolphWriter and teacher who helped Morissette develop her storytelling
SouleyeRapper and Morissette's husband, married in 2010
Martin ShortCanadian comedian and actor set to duet on Morissette's holiday album
Joni MitchellCanadian singer-songwriter cited as an example of fame as a means to an end

Topics

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From the publisher

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Alanis Morissette. Alanis reflects on starting her career at a young age and finding her voice in a male-dominated music industry. She opens up about pushing against the expectations placed on women, being labeled “too much,” and how the anger and honesty of her music made her a defining voice of the ’90s. Alanis also discusses navigating love and breaking patterns of codependency, her experience with postpartum depression, and the freedom and complete metamorphosis that comes with getting older. Enjoy!

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 27, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Music Interviews·Society & Culture·Mental Health