The New Way For Ordinary People To Build Wealth - Tony Robbins - #1153
Episode of Modern Wisdom · September 21, 2026 · 1 h 30 min
Tony Robbins and Christopher Zook tell Chris Williamson how ordinary investors can access private equity, sports teams and alternatives to diversify risk.
Summary
Tony Robbins and Christopher Zook joined Chris Williamson to discuss the arguments in their book The Holy Grail of Investing. Robbins recounted how his anger at the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis led him to interview leading investors including Ray Dalio, Paul Tudor Jones, Kyle Bass and Mary Callahan Erdoes, and how Dalio's advice — combining eight to twelve non-correlated investments to cut risk by roughly 80% — became the book's organising principle. Robbins argued that the four core investing principles are protecting downside risk, seeking asymmetric risk-reward, tax efficiency, and genuine diversification, and claimed private equity has outperformed public markets for 39 consecutive years.
Zook argued that most retail portfolios are far less diversified than owners believe, citing a rise in average portfolio correlation from about 15% in 2005 to 82% today, and the concentration of the "Magnificent Seven" at roughly a third of the S&P 500. Both described recent regulatory changes — an SEC decision in June 2025 and a proposed Department of Labor rule on 401(k) plans — as opening alternative assets such as professional sports franchises, venture capital, and defence and space companies to ordinary investors at minimums as low as $2,500. They pointed to holdings including the Dodgers, the Golden State Warriors, Liverpool, Paris Saint-Germain, Anduril, Armada and ICON.
The conversation turned to investor psychology. Zook said risk is best understood as volatility tolerance and that the more risk-averse a person is, the more diversified they should be, warning that emotion is the enemy of investment success. Robbins described his "security", "growth" and "dream" bucket framework, told a cautionary story about a friend who lost a $200 million fortune in the 2008 Las Vegas property crash, and argued that tithing and giving drive both happiness and wealth, citing his own feeding, reforestation and anti-trafficking initiatives.
Robbins also laid out his thesis that AGI could arrive within 36 months, discussed quantum computing, agentic AI deployment with Salesforce and the UAE, a mental-health product built with the founders of Calm, and a debt-free reskilling venture at unitedcolleges.org. Zook argued energy supply will fail to meet AI-driven demand around 2028, creating investment opportunity. Robbins closed with his OOCEMR decision-making framework and stories about General Norman Schwarzkopf.
Chapters
- 0:36
Why another money book
Robbins explains how the 2008 crisis prompted him to interview top investors and write Money Master the Game and Unshakeable.
- 2:50
The four core investing principles
Robbins outlines downside protection, asymmetric risk-reward (illustrated by Kyle Bass's nickel trade), tax efficiency and diversification, and Ray Dalio's holy grail of 8-12 non-correlated investments.
- 7:32
Private equity returns and meeting Christopher Zook
Robbins compares private equity and S&P 500 compounding and describes how he came to partner with Zook's Houston firm as a general partner.
- 11:07
Is the S&P 500 enough?
Zook argues the Magnificent Seven are not diversification and that portfolio correlations have risen sharply due to indexation.
- 15:09
Diversification from first principles and new rules
Zook explains private assets in everyday terms and describes the 2025 SEC change and the proposed Labor Department 401(k) rule.
- 20:16
Overlooked asset classes: sports, defence and space
Robbins and Zook discuss professional sports franchises as uncorrelated assets and venture investments in Saronic, Anduril, Armada and ICON.
- 32:33
Hidden risk, leverage and sports betting
Zook defines risk as volatility tolerance and Robbins criticises younger generations treating sports betting as a wealth strategy.
- 36:18
Risk tolerance and the security and growth buckets
Zook argues risk-averse investors need more diversification and percentage-based thinking; Robbins describes his bucket framework and money-exchange exercise.
- 46:10
Abundance mindset and its dangers
Zook and Robbins discuss whether optimism helps or hurts investors, including the story of a friend who lost $400 million in Las Vegas property.
- 51:33
The dream bucket, lifestyle and giving
Robbins argues for spending on experiences, time-saving services and philanthropy, describing his meal, tree-planting and anti-trafficking goals.
- 1:07:32
AI, quantum, energy and reskilling
Robbins forecasts AGI within 36 months and describes agentic AI ventures, while Zook explains why energy supply will constrain AI growth.
- 1:22:14
Decision-making frameworks
Robbins teaches his OOCEMR process and tells stories about General Schwarzkopf, and Zook applies it to investing.
Key points
What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.
- Tony Robbins
Robbins says he wrote Money Master the Game after 2008 because he believed the financial game looked rigged and wanted to test whether ordinary people could still win.
“Right now, the game seems like it's rigged and the average person thinks that they can't win. And I want to know, could they?”
- Tony Robbins
Robbins reports Ray Dalio's holy grail principle that eight to twelve non-correlated investments reduce risk by about 80% while increasing upside.
“I found out that if you will confine 8 to 12 non-correlated investments, and they're things you believe in, you reduce your risk by 80% and increase your upside”
- Tony Robbins
Robbins argues ultra-high-net-worth investors hold the majority of their assets privately and that most companies are now private.
“If you look at the ultra high net worth people, 52% of their money is in private equity, private credit, private. Only 29% in the public markets”
- Christopher Zook
Zook says average portfolio correlation has risen from about 15% in 2005 to 82% today, worsening to 89% in down markets.
“your average correlation was about 0.15, which meant they correlated about 15% with each other. 85%, they were moving different directions, okay? Today, literally, with no change in that asset allocation, it is 82% correlation”
- Christopher Zook
Zook argues owning the Magnificent Seven is not diversification because those stocks move together.
“I own like six out of the seven of the Magnificent Seven. Right. I'm like, dude, you are not diversified. They all move together”
- Christopher Zook
Zook says an SEC decision in June 2025 allowed non-accredited investors to buy into certain alternative asset funds for a $2,500 minimum.
“said people do not have to be an accredited investor anymore to invest in certain types of funds which own alternative assets”
Listen from 17:55 · U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission accredited investor rules
- Christopher Zook
Zook describes the proposed Labor Department rule permitting alternatives in 401(k) plans as a game changer for retail access.
“That is a total game changer for the industry to be able to allow people for the first time to be able to invest in so much of the economy that they've been prohibited from before”
- Tony Robbins
Robbins argues sports teams are uncorrelated, recession-resistant assets that have compounded at 18% over the past decade.
“Sports are an uncorrelated investment. They have nothing to do with the markets going up or down, what's happening with interest rates. In the last 10 years, they've had an 18% compounded return”
- Christopher Zook
Zook cites the shift in live television viewing toward sports as the underlying driver of franchise value.
“14 of the top 100 watch programs that were live in the United States were sports. 14 out of 100. In 2025, 96 of the top 100 watch live programs were sports”
- Christopher Zook
Zook argues risk is really volatility tolerance and that most investors overestimate their ability to hold through losses.
“If you can't see it turn into 50 cents overnight, you don't belong in it”
- Tony Robbins
Robbins cites a statistic that a majority of Gen Z and millennials diverted investment money into sports betting and a quarter see it as their financial future.
“52% of them in the last year have taken money that they would have used investment to put into sports betting, and that 26% think that sports betting is their way to build their financial future”
- Christopher Zook
Zook argues that the more risk-averse an investor is, the more diversified their portfolio should be.
“So the more risk averse somebody is, the more diversified they should be”
- Christopher Zook
Zook says the most common investor mistake he sees is making decisions in dollar terms rather than percentages of a portfolio.
“People make investment decisions based on dollars. That is crazy. No professional investor does that. It has to be on percentages”
- Tony Robbins
Robbins says modern private equity creates value by improving businesses rather than breaking them up as in earlier eras.
“It's not like the old days where they find something, cut it all up and sell off its pieces. That was the original kind of private equity. Those days are over”
- Christopher Zook
Zook says his firm's operating principle is to assess the worst case first and trust the upside to follow.
“what's the worst case scenario? If we can live with that, the upside will take care of itself”
- Tony Robbins
Robbins recounts John Templeton telling him that gratitude is the secret to wealth and that consistent tithing precedes great wealth.
“If you're grateful about anything, you're gonna be rich. If you have a billion dollars and you're not grateful, you're unhappy”
- Tony Robbins
Robbins says he set and met a goal of a billion meals with Feeding America and now has commitments for hundreds of billions of meals globally.
“Right now I have commitments for 295 billion meals in four years and 63 billion have already been delivered”
- Tony Robbins
Robbins argues the greatest sources of joy from spending are experiences and giving to others rather than possessions.
“The three things that give you the most joy are number one, experiences. Experiences are more than any toy or asset because those we get used to”
Linked moment · 1:07:32Skip to 1:07:32 using a listen link in the info box.
Tony RobbinsRobbins predicts AGI within 36 months and superintelligence within five to six years, citing Ray Kurzweil.
“We'll have AGI in the next 36 months. Some people would argue we already have it”
- Tony Robbins
Robbins says his approach deploys many small AI agents to remove busy work rather than a single monolithic system that replaces staff.
“we look at people's workflow and you find out that 60% of what people do is busy work”
- Tony Robbins
Robbins criticises general-purpose chatbots as sycophantic and unsuited to mental health support, describing an alternative product that reads micro-expressions.
“These are made for sycophancy. They're designed to keep you online talking. They're not designed to actually help you to change”
- Christopher Zook
Zook predicts energy demand will exceed supply in 2028 and argues all forms of energy will be needed.
“Those lines are expected to cross in 2028, where we will literally not have as much power as we need to be able to meet all the demand”
- Christopher Zook
Zook says the reserve replacement ratio shows energy is being consumed five times faster than it is being replaced this decade.
“for every one unit of energy that we're consuming, we're only replacing 0.2 of that energy. So we're consuming at five times faster the rate than what we're creating new energy”
- Tony Robbins
Robbins describes his OOCEMR method and argues decision-making is a muscle strengthened by deciding more often.
“The most important thing in decision-making is value clarification. When you know what's most important to you, you can make a decision”
- Christopher Zook
Zook argues emotion is the enemy of investment success and must be removed via a consistent percentage-based process.
“Emotion is the enemy. To investment success, period. So you have to be clinical and you have to remove the emotion”
People
In the conversation
- Chris WilliamsonBritish podcaster and host of Modern Wisdom
- Tony RobbinsAmerican life and business coach, entrepreneur and bestselling author
- Christopher ZookAmerican investor, founder and chairman of CAZ Investments and co-author of The Holy Grail of Investing
Discussed
- Ray DalioAmerican hedge fund investor and founder of Bridgewater Associates
- Paul Tudor JonesAmerican hedge fund manager and trader
- Kyle BassTexas-based hedge fund manager known for betting against subprime mortgages
- Peter GuberAmerican entertainment executive and co-owner of the Los Angeles Dodgers and Golden State Warriors
- Mary Callahan ErdoesCEO of J.P. Morgan Asset & Wealth Management
- John TempletonAmerican-born investor and philanthropist
- Ray KurzweilAmerican inventor and futurist known for predictions about AI
- David BeasleyFormer executive director of the UN World Food Programme
- Norman SchwarzkopfUS Army general who commanded coalition forces in the Gulf War
- Brett AdcockFounder of humanoid robotics company Figure AI
- David FriedbergAmerican entrepreneur and podcaster
- Bill PerkinsAmerican hedge fund manager and author of Die With Zero
- Warren BuffettAmerican investor and chairman of Berkshire Hathaway
- Carl IcahnAmerican activist investor
Topics
- Private equity
- Diversification (finance)
- The Holy Grail of Investing
- Magnificent Seven (stocks)
- S&P 500
- Sports franchise investment
- U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission accredited investor rules
- Artificial general intelligence
- Agentic AI in business
- Energy demand and data centers
- CAZ Investments
- Philanthropy and tithing
- OOCEMR decision-making framework
- 401(k)
- Money Master the Game
- ICON (construction company)
- Student loan debt in the United States
- Quantum computing
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From the publisher
Tony Robbins is a life and business coach, entrepreneur and #1 New York Times Bestselling author. Christopher Zook is an investor, founder and chairman. How do you protect and grow your money when the markets feel so unpredictable? Tony Robbins has written extensively about money and investing, and he’s back with practical advice for everyday investors. So which strategies hold up in turbulent times, what costly mistakes should you avoid, and how can you make smarter decisions today to build a more secure financial future? Expect to learn the new strategies of investing from some of the nation's most successful funds, what Tony’s new philosophy and formula on investing is, which investing advice people still repeat today that is completely outdated, how normal people can get investing access to some of the world's fastest-growing companies, if we are in a genuine market bubble and much more… Sponsors: See discounts for all the products I use and recommend: https://chriswillx.com/deals Get 160+ lab tests for just $365 and save an extra $25 at https://functionhealth.com/modernwisdom Get a free bottle of D3K2, an AG1 Welcome Kit, and more when you first subscribe at https://ag1.info/modernwisdom Get 35% off your first subscription on the best supplements from Momentous at https://livemomentous.com/modernwisdom Get a Free Sample Pack of LMNT’s most popular flavours with your first purchase at https://drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom Get ChatGPT to explore ideas, solve problems, and learn faster at https://chatgpt.com Timestamps: (00:00) Tony’s Rules for Building Wealth (11:07) Is the S&P 500 Still a Smart Investment? (15:08) What Does Real Diversification Look Like? (20:03) The Investment Opportunities Everyone Overlooks (32:33) Which Investments Are Riskier Than They Seem? (36:09) Why Risk-Averse Investors Need More Diversification (41:22) How a Scarcity Mindset Shapes Your Investments (46:10) Can an Abundance Mindset Make You Reckless? (51:22) Why Everyone Needs a Dream…
Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 26, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.