Heather Cox Richardson on Trump’s 250th Celebrations

Episode of Pod Save America · June 21, 2026 · 1 h 4 min

Historian Heather Cox Richardson and Alex Wagner discuss Trump's 250th-anniversary celebrations, his Washington building projects, patriotism, and JD Vance's blood-and-soil nationalism.

Summary

Alex Wagner interviewed historian Heather Cox Richardson about the Trump administration's plans for the United States Semiquincentennial, including a UFC fight on the White House South Lawn and a planned Fourth of July rally on the National Mall. Richardson argued that there was no historical parallel and that great presidents built their legacies by improving Americans' lives rather than attaching their names to things. She contrasted Theodore Roosevelt's exhibition boxing, which she said involved no taxpayer money or branding, with the UFC event, and recounted Abraham Lincoln's frontier fighting reputation.

The two discussed Trump's changes to Washington, D.C., including the White House ballroom, a proposed arch, and the gilding of horses near the Lincoln Memorial. Richardson praised New York Times coverage of the city's architecture, argued the ballroom breaks historic sight lines, and criticized spending on vanity projects while SNAP and Medicaid are cut. She said she doubted the ballroom would be finished before Trump leaves office, and recounted historical controversies over White House renovations under Mary Todd Lincoln and Benjamin Harrison's son Russell.

Richardson described her 250 to 250 project, short narrated stories of people, places, and events that advanced American democracy, which she framed as centering ordinary and marginalized Americans. Discussing Jerusalem Demsas's argument that the left must reclaim patriotism, Richardson said non-right Americans had ceded patriotism since the Vietnam War and that Democratic veterans in Congress were now redefining it.

The conversation closed with JD Vance's 2025 Claremont Institute speech. Richardson argued that his blood-and-soil conception of American identity is a European import that rejects the Declaration of Independence's foundation in natural law and human self-determination. Asked what else should be a national holiday, she chose the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment and the signing of the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

Chapters

0:20
Introduction
Alex Wagner introduces Heather Cox Richardson and the episode's topics around America's 250th anniversary.
2:45
Trump's 250th and the UFC fight
Richardson argues Trump's self-centered celebrations have no historical parallel and contrasts Theodore Roosevelt's boxing and Lincoln's frontier fighting with the White House UFC event.
11:10
States opting out and Americans' own celebrations
The two discuss blue states skipping the Great American State Fair, 1876 comparisons, and Americans celebrating via the Knicks parade, the Obama Presidential Center opening, and Juneteenth.
20:15
Remaking Washington and the ballroom
Richardson discusses D.C.'s civic design, the ballroom and arch, taxpayer costs, and corruption concerns.
28:58
Historical White House renovations
Richardson recounts Mary Todd Lincoln's redecoration and Russell Harrison's failed renovation plans, and considers what to do with the ballroom.
37:13
The 250 to 250 project
Richardson explains her series of short narrated stories centering the American people in the nation's history.
44:04
Reclaiming patriotism
Richardson responds to Jerusalem Demsas's argument about the left and patriotism, citing Democratic veterans such as Jason Crow.
50:40
JD Vance's blood-and-soil nationalism
Richardson critiques Vance's Claremont Institute speech as a rejection of the Declaration's natural-law foundations.
58:17
Alternative national holidays
Richardson nominates the Fourteenth Amendment and the Voting Rights Act as moments worth celebrating.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

Heather Cox Richardson
Richardson argues that there is no historical precedent for Trump's use of the 250th celebrations, because his administration rejects basic democratic principles.
“We're in a really different moment than ever before in American history with an administration that's rejecting the basic principles of our democratic government”
Listen from 3:30 · United States Semiquincentennial
Heather Cox Richardson
Richardson argues that great presidents are remembered for improving Americans' lives rather than for putting their names on things.
“They're the ones who carved their memory into the American people by making their lives better”
Listen from 4:31 · United States Semiquincentennial
Heather Cox Richardson
Richardson contends that Theodore Roosevelt's boxing differed from the White House UFC fight because it used no taxpayer money and was not a branding or corruption opportunity.
“taxpayer money didn't go into Teddy Roosevelt's fighting. And it was not a branding opportunity. And for sure, it was not the corruption opportunity”
Listen from 7:05 · UFC White House event
Heather Cox Richardson
Richardson says that as Freedom 250 took funding from America 250, Americans found their own ways to celebrate, such as at the Knicks celebration and the Obama Presidential Center opening.
“Trump's group, has basically taken almost all of the money from the bipartisan, congressionally-backed America 250, is that Americans themselves are finding their own ways to celebrate”
Listen from 12:25 · United States Semiquincentennial
Linked moment · 14:45Skip to 14:45 using a listen link in the info box.
Alex Wagner
Wagner argues that Juneteenth became an alternative Fourth of July this year for people who felt excluded by Trump's celebrations.
“has become kind of an alternative Fourth of July for a lot of people who feel completely excluded from Trump's, you know, malignant narcissism”
Listen from 14:45 · Juneteenth
Heather Cox Richardson
Richardson argues that the proposed ballroom breaks the historic line of sight down Pennsylvania Avenue to the White House.
“the proposed ballroom is that it actually breaks the line of sight between the, yeah, which you grew up with, right? Down Pennsylvania Avenue”
Listen from 22:08 · Architecture of Washington, D.C.
Heather Cox Richardson
Richardson criticizes the administration for spending taxpayer money on vanity projects while removing people from SNAP.
“this isn't his money. It's our money. And, you know, you look at the number of people who have been thrown off SNAP”
Listen from 24:03 · White House ballroom project
Alex Wagner
Wagner cites Washington Post reporting that the ballroom will cost $600 million, roughly half from taxpayers.
“The cost of the ballroom, that monstrosity, is going to cost $600 million with approximately half of that coming from taxpayer wallets”
Listen from 25:01 · White House ballroom project
Heather Cox Richardson
Richardson says she personally doubts the ballroom will be completed before Trump leaves office, citing legal and financial challenges.
“There's legal challenges. There's financial challenges. Trump is falling apart. Nobody likes that ballroom”
Listen from 28:03 · White House ballroom project
Heather Cox Richardson
Richardson suggests that a completed ballroom could be repurposed from a symbol of authoritarianism into a symbol of popular power, as other countries have done.
“it is possible to think of the American people being able to turn a symbol of authoritarianism into a symbol of popular power”
Listen from 35:08 · White House ballroom project
Heather Cox Richardson
Richardson describes American democracy as a continually contested story of marginalized people demanding inclusion in the Declaration's principles.
“it has been the story of marginalized peoples demanding inclusion in the principles that were laid out in the Declaration of Independence”
Listen from 38:21 · 250 to 250
Heather Cox Richardson
Richardson argues that since the Vietnam War, Democrats and centrists have ceded patriotism to the radical right.
“since the Vietnam War, People who are not part of the radical right, who are either Democrats or centrists, have tended to cede the idea of patriotism”
Listen from 44:53 · Patriotism in American politics
Heather Cox Richardson
Richardson claims there is no documented instance of Vietnam veterans being spat on, calling it a construction of the radical right.
“There is no documented instance of that happening. That was a construction of the radical right”
Listen from 44:53 · Patriotism in American politics
Heather Cox Richardson
Richardson argues that blood-and-soil nationalism comes from Europe and does not fit North America, whose 13 colonies were never solely European.
“this idea of blood and soil is actually one that comes out of Europe. It's not one that fits naturally at all over North America”
Listen from 52:13 · JD Vance Claremont Institute speech
Heather Cox Richardson
Richardson argues that Vance's vision rejects the natural-law basis of the Declaration and the entire enterprise of human self-determination.
“It's a rejection of the entire enterprise of human self-determination”
Listen from 54:37 · United States Declaration of Independence
Heather Cox Richardson
Richardson calls the Fourteenth Amendment her favorite, noting that the Reconstruction Amendments were the first to give power to Congress.
“the 13th, 14th, and 15th are the First Amendments that give power to the Congress rather than taking it away”
Listen from 59:46 · Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
Heather Cox Richardson
Richardson nominates the Voting Rights Act for celebration because for the first time everyone got a say in government, which she says the radical right has worked to dismantle.
“For the first time, everybody gets a say in the government. And that, of course, has been what the radical right has been working to dismantle ever since”
Listen from 1:00:16 · Voting Rights Act of 1965

People

In the conversation

Alex WagnerMSNBC host who hosts episodes in the Pod Save America feed
Heather Cox RichardsonAmerican historian and author of the Substack newsletter Letters from an American

Discussed

Donald TrumpPresident of the United States whose conduct of the Iran war is the episode's main subject
JD VanceVice President of the United States
Theodore RooseveltFormer US president who urged intervention
Abraham LincolnU.S. president cited for suspending habeas corpus during the Civil War
Mary Todd LincolnFirst Lady who redecorated the White House during the Civil War
Salmon P. ChaseLincoln's Treasury Secretary and presidential aspirant
Kate ChaseWashington socialite and daughter of Salmon P. Chase
Benjamin Harrison23rd U.S. president
Russell HarrisonSon of Benjamin Harrison who proposed a major White House renovation
Jerusalem DemsasJournalist and founder of The Argument who wrote on the left and patriotism
Jason CrowDemocratic congressman and Army veteran
Rosa ParksCivil rights activist
Greg BovinoBorder Patrol official who tried to keep official social media accounts after leaving his post
Donald Trump Jr.Son of Donald Trump, reportedly discussed as Apprentice host
Stephen MillerWhite House deputy chief of staff and architect of the administration's immigration agenda
Pete ButtigiegFormer U.S. Secretary of Transportation

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From the publisher

Historian Heather Cox Richardson joins Alex Wagner to discuss Trump's plans for America's semiquincentennial, put his fight on the White House lawn into historical context, and make sense of his mission to remake our nation's capital in his image. The two talk about what it means to be patriotic in this moment, the flaws in JD Vance's vision of blood and soil nationalism, and Heather's new series — 250 to 250 — where she's retelling the stories of "the people, places, and events that have helped to move us toward a more perfect Union." For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here . For a transcript of this episode, please email transcripts@crooked.com and include the name of the podcast, episode title, and episode date.

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 29, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: History·Politics