When Life Gives You Don Lemon

Episode of Pod Save America · March 29, 2026 · 1 h 10 min

Don Lemon tells Alex Wagner about his federal indictment for covering an ICE protest, press freedom, and independent media.

Summary

Alex Wagner interviewed Don Lemon, the former CNN anchor now working as an independent journalist, about the federal charges the Department of Justice brought against him after he live-streamed an ICE protest inside a Minnesota church. Lemon said he traveled to Minnesota almost incidentally while en route to host a Rainbow PUSH Coalition breakfast in Chicago, that he had no prior relationship with the protesters, and that being present among protesters does not make a reporter a participant. He described being grabbed in an elevator during his arrest, said unidentified vehicles had followed him and his husband from their New York home beforehand, and said his attorney had offered to arrange a voluntary surrender that prosecutors ignored.

Lemon and Wagner discussed the use of the 1871 Ku Klux Klan Act against a Black journalist, which both called deliberate and racist, and situated it within what they described as a broader administration effort to reframe civil rights protections as discrimination against white people. Lemon argued that the assault on the press and the war coverage are linked, citing Pentagon restrictions on reporters and Pete Hegseth's instructions on how coverage should be framed, and said he was more surprised by how much the public and the press have allowed than by Trump's behavior itself. He called on White House press corps reporters and news executives to be more confrontational.

The conversation then turned to the economics and culture of independent media. Lemon said audiences want authenticity, trust, and community rather than polish, and that he built a community rather than a channel with his daily program and street interviews. He criticized CNN's attempt to reformat anchors like Jake Tapper as podcasters and argued that moving a news network rightward is both commercially and journalistically misguided, pointing to CBS's ratings under Bari Weiss. He distinguished figures such as Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson, whom he called influencers with cult-like audiences, from outlets he said operate from a shared factual baseline.

Asked about his future, Lemon revisited his earlier remarks about Nikki Haley and women's "prime," saying they were misconstrued and that he was describing how society treats women. He said he thinks about running for office, would likely have to become a Democrat to do so, believes he could run the country better than Donald Trump, and is more confident still that he could fix a news organization.

Chapters

0:20
Introduction
Alex Wagner introduces the episode and the interview with Don Lemon about his federal charges.
2:34
The assault on the press and the war
Lemon argues press restrictions at the Pentagon and administration messaging about the Iran war are connected, and that his arrest is bigger than himself.
6:03
Free speech absolutism and the First Amendment
Lemon says he is surprised less by Trump than by how much the public has allowed, and criticizes conservatives who claimed to be free speech absolutists.
9:45
What happened in Minnesota
Lemon recounts going to the church protest almost by chance and insists that being present with protesters does not make him one.
13:40
The Ku Klux Klan Act charge and race
Wagner and Lemon discuss the 1871 statute being used against a Black journalist and the administration's broader framing of race and grievance.
24:21
The White House tweet and the arrest
Lemon responds to the 'when life gives you lemons' post, describes being followed and arrested, and says he was neither embarrassed nor afraid.
26:20
Legal strategy and the grand jury filing
Lemon discusses his lawyers' motion to see what the government presented to the grand jury and his confidence in the outcome.
36:09
Leaving mainstream media for independence
Lemon calls on journalists and news executives to show more courage and explains why he chose to report from the street.
43:44
Authenticity, community, and the Lemonheads
Lemon argues audiences want trust, flaws, and community, and that he built a community rather than a program.
47:50
CNN, CBS, and networks imitating podcasts
Lemon criticizes turning anchors into podcasters and argues moving a news network to the right is the wrong strategy.
55:03
MAGA media versus independent left media
Lemon distinguishes influencers with cult-like audiences from independent outlets he says share a factual baseline.
59:11
Prime, politics, and a possible run
Lemon revisits his Nikki Haley remarks and says he could run the country better than Trump, though fixing a news organization interests him more.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

Don Lemon
Lemon says his arrest matters beyond himself because the corporate media has already been neutered and independent journalists are now the target.
“And my arrest, it's way bigger than me because if they're coming for me, this independent person, they're coming for you But they've already neutered the corporate media”
Listen from 3:43 · Freedom of the press in the United States
Don Lemon
Lemon argues the war and the assault on the press are linked because the administration does not want accurate reporting on the conflict.
“The war and the assault on the press because they don't want people reporting accuracy and what's really happening with the war”
Listen from 4:24 · Freedom of the press in the United States
Don Lemon
Lemon says he is surprised not by how far Trump has gone but by how far the public has permitted him to go.
“I'm surprised at how far we have allowed him to take”
Listen from 6:49 · Freedom of the press in the United States
Don Lemon
Lemon says he would defend the right of journalists to publish critical pieces about him, citing a New York Times profile he found fair overall.
“People write things about me all the time that I don't like. And, but I would fight for their ability and their right to be able to say it”
Listen from 8:14 · Freedom of the press in the United States
Don Lemon
Lemon maintains that being present in the church with protesters does not make him a protester rather than a journalist.
“just because I was in a church with protesters does not make me a protester”
Listen from 11:21 · Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871
Don Lemon
Lemon says those prosecuting him are acting with malicious and malevolent intent and should face consequences.
“I think that there is a malicious intent nature of what they're doing. It's malevolent. It's malicious. It's evil”
Listen from 14:25 · United States Department of Justice
Linked moment · 14:29Skip to 14:29 using a listen link in the info box.
Don Lemon
Lemon says the decision to charge him under the Klan Act was deliberate and that everything this administration does is calculated.
“Is it a deliberate play? Yes, of course it is. I mean, everything is calculated with this administration”
Listen from 14:29 · Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871
Alex Wagner
Wagner argues the administration and Supreme Court are working to whitewash America's racist history by recasting civil rights protections as reverse racism.
“to first of all whitewash America's racist history and the legacy of slavery by saying that all of the civil rights protections that we have in place are effectively reverse racism against white people”
Listen from 16:52 · Racism in the United States
Don Lemon
Lemon argues that grievance politics tricks struggling white Americans into blaming minorities and women rather than economic change.
“Donald Trump is very good, and especially this MAGA, very good at making people feel aggrieved, and that and fear are great motivators”
Listen from 19:36 · Racism in the United States
Don Lemon
Lemon says a genuine national reckoning on race is impossible while the Trump administration and white Christian nationalism remain dominant.
“I don't think that we are going to do it as long as there is a Trump administration in place, as long as MAGA and Christian nationalism are front and center in this country”
Listen from 23:49 · White Christian nationalism
Don Lemon
Lemon says the White House's 'when life gives you lemons' post was a test that backfired and that even conservatives found it excessive.
“I do believe, I thought that they, that was sort of a test to see how that went over. And I don't think it played well in the public”
Listen from 25:14 · United States Department of Justice
Don Lemon
Lemon says prosecutors were turned down by multiple judges before taking the case to a grand jury.
“I think it was like three different tries or two or three different tries. And everyone said, no, we're not doing this. And then they took it to a grand jury”
Listen from 28:08 · Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871
Don Lemon
Lemon predicts he will ultimately prevail in the case against him.
“I still think that at the end of the day, it's going to be, I'm going to end up on top. I'm going to end up the winner in this”
Listen from 28:55 · Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871
Don Lemon
Lemon says his attorney offered a voluntary surrender that was ignored, making the arrest a deliberate waste of resources meant to intimidate.
“They did it because they want you to be afraid and because they want to embarrass you. I was neither embarrassed nor was I afraid”
Listen from 32:17 · United States Department of Justice
Don Lemon
Lemon reveals that cars parked outside his New York home followed him before the charges were filed, something he says he had never disclosed.
“before that there were people who were parked outside of our home in New York City and would follow us when we got into the car. And I have never said that to anyone”
Listen from 32:29 · United States Department of Justice
Don Lemon
Lemon calls on White House reporters to persist with questions and collectively confront the president when a colleague is insulted.
“They need to continue to ask the question when Donald Trump is being rude”
Listen from 38:02 · White House press corps
Don Lemon
Lemon says his street interviews during the 2024 election revealed pro-Trump sentiment in demographics he had not expected.
“I started hearing a lot of Trump. I like Trump and from demographics that I didn't expect to hear it from”
Listen from 41:58 · 2024 United States presidential election
Don Lemon
Lemon says he deliberately built a community rather than a channel because audiences want connection and authenticity.
“So what I did was build a community rather than a channel or a program”
Listen from 46:20 · Independent and creator-led journalism
Don Lemon
Lemon argues networks should not turn credible anchors into podcasters and should hire actual podcasters if they want that format.
“And they shouldn't be trying to be me. If they want podcasters, Alex, hire some podcasters”
Listen from 49:47 · CNN
Alex Wagner
Wagner says CBS has recorded its worst ratings of the century under Bari Weiss's leadership.
“It has had the worst ratings they've had this century, Don. Barry Weiss is shepherding the worst ratings in CBS's history this century”
Listen from 49:54 · CBS News
Don Lemon
Lemon argues that repositioning a news network ideologically is not journalism and predicts CNN will need a miracle if it follows CBS's path.
“So I believe if CNN goes down the same road that CBS does, then they're going to need a miracle to get out of it”
Listen from 54:12 · CNN
Don Lemon
Lemon argues left-leaning independent outlets are transparent about their perspective but still operate from facts, unlike right-wing propaganda.
“They're transparent about it. But at least there's facts and a shared sense of reality, and they're not saying, well, the first lady of France is a man”
Listen from 58:39 · Independent and creator-led journalism
Don Lemon
Lemon says his comments about Nikki Haley and women's prime were misconstrued and were describing how society treats women rather than his own view.
“But that's how society treats women. And you should know better. So you shouldn't be an ageist when someone has been sexist or misogynistic towards you”
Listen from 1:01:11 · Racism in the United States
Don Lemon
Lemon says he could run the country better than Donald Trump and would likely have to register as a Democrat to run for office.
“I think I could be president of the United States. I could definitely run this country better than Donald Trump”
Listen from 1:05:06 · Independent and creator-led journalism
Don Lemon
Lemon says what he would most like to run is a news organization, believing he could fix most of its problems quickly.
“A news organization. Because I was there, I'd been in the game for so long, and I'm not interested in being the anchor out front”
Listen from 1:06:12 · CNN

People

In the conversation

Alex WagnerMSNBC host who hosts episodes in the Pod Save America feed
Don LemonIndependent journalist and former CNN anchor scheduled as an upcoming guest

Discussed

Donald TrumpPresident of the United States whose conduct of the Iran war is the episode's main subject
Pete HegsethU.S. Secretary of Defense overseeing the Iran campaign
Jake TapperCNN anchor whose program is being reformatted in a podcast style
Anderson CooperCNN anchor cited by Lemon as an iconic journalist
Bari WeissEditor-in-chief of CBS News, criticized by Wagner over ratings
Candace OwensConservative commentator and podcaster cited as a top-ranked show
Tucker CarlsonConservative broadcaster cited as part of right-wing media
Megyn KellyConservative broadcaster and podcaster
Nikki HaleyFormer Republican governor and presidential candidate referenced in Lemon's 'prime' controversy
Abbe LowellDefense attorney named by Lemon as the kind of counsel he could hire
James ComeyFormer FBI director cited as another target of unusual federal prosecution
Letitia JamesNew York attorney general cited as another target of federal prosecution
Heather McGheeAuthor of The Sum of Us, cited by Wagner on zero-sum racial politics
Jesse JacksonCivil rights leader whose Rainbow PUSH Coalition breakfast Lemon was traveling to host
John MillerCNN analyst and former NYPD official cited in an analogy about interviewing Osama bin Laden
Steve SchmidtPolitical strategist who made the John Miller analogy Lemon cites
Richard EngelNBC correspondent cited for persisting when his microphone was cut during a Netanyahu event
Karoline LeavittWhite House press secretary referenced in a discussion of briefings
Barack ObamaFormer president referenced in comparing 2010 midterm conditions
Brian Tyler CohenProgressive online commentator cited as an independent media success
Larry EllisonReferenced via the Ellison family's pending control of CNN

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From the publisher

Don Lemon, the former CNN anchor turned independent journalist, talks to Alex Wagner about the charges the Department of Justice brought against him for covering an ICE protest inside a Minnesota church. Don shares new details about the days leading up to his arrest and the administration's war against a free and independent press. Then, they talk about the differences between independent and mainstream journalism, how MAGA media differs from the media on the left, and what's next for Lemon and the "Lemon Heads." Could it be a run for president? For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here . For a transcript of this episode, please email transcripts@crooked.com and include the name of the podcast.

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 27, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Politics·News Commentary·Society & Culture