#57 ~ SKINNER: Art, Mythology, Monsters & Self Love

Episode of Seekers of the Eternal · December 22, 2024 · 1 h 47 min

Artist Skinner talks with host Palehorse about anxiety, monsters as metaphor, mythology, conspiracies, wrestling and finding self-love through creative work.

Summary

Artist Skinner joined host Palehorse on Seekers of the Eternal for a wide-ranging conversation about creativity and the psychological pressures of making a living as an artist. Both described anxiety around being understood, and Skinner argued that external pressures such as money and validation are the chief motivations for what he called self-abandonment. He described two creative modes — a comfortable one involving drawing and inking, and an uncomfortable one involving writing and world-building that he tends to avoid — and said meaningful growth comes from sitting in the discomfort of not knowing.

Skinner explained that his monster imagery is a way of metabolizing childhood trauma, and cited Guillermo del Toro's view of monsters as saints onto which people can project isolation, shame and existential disconnect. Palehorse connected this to mythology, recounting the Ramayana's origin story of Ravana as a cursed gatekeeper of Vishnu and the Bhagavad Gita as an inner battle, while Skinner described Indra's net as a model for treating difficult encounters as reflections of oneself. Palehorse also discussed roughly fifteen ayahuasca ceremonies and a life-review experience that taught him not to punish himself for past mistakes.

The pair traded stories about defusing hostility through friendliness, changing tastes in heavy metal, and a childhood premonition Skinner had about a ketchup packet that he still cannot explain. Both described periods of fascination with conspiracy material: Palehorse said his wife told him nobody wanted to hear it and that he escaped by listening to opposing perspectives and turning inward, while Skinner argued that conspiracy belief functions as a way to avoid personal accountability and reflects cultural atomization.

The conversation closed on professional wrestling as storytelling — Skinner praised older, fully realized heel characters, and Palehorse described co-creating the AEW luchador character Serpentico as part of an art show — followed by Skinner's project updates, including the stop-motion film Shrine of Abominations, the board game Realm Runners, the short film The Print in the Woods, and a planned feature called Dungeon Crawl. Palehorse ended by reading a passage from Paramahansa Yogananda.

Chapters

1:09
Opening prayer and performance anxiety
Skinner praises the podcast's opening prayer, and both discuss the bodily anxiety of public speaking and the fear of not being understood.
5:57
Money, validation and self-abandonment
Skinner describes how fear of scarcity and irrelevance pushes him toward commercially safe work that disconnects him from his creativity.
13:33
Fantasy, isolation and reconnecting with people
Skinner recounts retreating into fantasy as a child and still struggling to leave the studio, while Palehorse describes building rituals for connection.
18:26
Rituals, comfortable and uncomfortable creative portals
Palehorse reads a Rick Rubin quote and Skinner distinguishes his easy drawing mode from the uncomfortable writing and world-building he avoids.
34:18
Monsters as metabolized trauma
Skinner explains that his monster art digests childhood trauma and shame, citing Guillermo del Toro's idea of monsters as saints.
39:49
Mythology, Indra's net and the return to love
Palehorse retells the origin of Ravana in the Ramayana and Skinner describes Indra's net as a tool for self-reflection during conflict.
45:34
Ayahuasca, self-observation and spiritual charlatans
Palehorse recounts his ayahuasca life review and both discuss discernment about spiritual teachers and spiritual bypassing.
57:59
Reversing hostile energy in everyday encounters
Skinner and Palehorse trade stories of defusing road rage, street confrontations and metal-show aggression through non-reaction.
1:02:59
Metal, Marilyn Manson and the ketchup packet premonition
Skinner describes losing patience with angry music and tells two bizarre personal stories, including a childhood premonition he still can't explain.
1:12:47
Synchronicity and the pull of conspiracy thinking
Palehorse cites Kirby Surprise on synchronicity while Skinner argues conspiracies offer false agency and avoid accountability.
1:27:48
Wrestling as character storytelling
Both discuss AEW, lucha libre, older wrestling heels, and Palehorse's co-creation of the luchador character Serpentico.
1:34:27
Projects, gratitude and a Yogananda reading
Skinner previews Shrine of Abominations, Realm Runners and Dungeon Crawl, and Palehorse closes with a passage from Yogananda.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

Palehorse
Palehorse says he opens speaking events with collective breathing because stage anxiety makes his body betray him.
“as soon as I would go on to stage or like be in front of a crowd of people, like my body betrays me, my heart's beating, sweating, feeling weird”
Listen from 2:04 · Artistic anxiety and self-doubt
Skinner
Skinner says fear-driven work shifts his focus from creativity to a fear of not being or having enough.
“it's not about my relationship to creativity. It's about my fear of not being enough or not having enough or whatever that is”
Listen from 6:59 · Artistic anxiety and self-doubt
Skinner
Skinner argues that external pressures such as money and validation are the main drivers of self-abandonment for artists.
“the external pressures are the motivations for self-abandonment in a lot of ways”
Listen from 7:08 · Artistic anxiety and self-doubt
Skinner
Skinner observes that people only get excited about his being an artist once they learn he earns money from it.
“I only see people. an excitement and an energy for being an artist when somebody can attach the idea that like you make money”
Listen from 10:17 · Artistic anxiety and self-doubt
Skinner
Skinner says he retreated into fantasy as a child and found ordinary reality mundane, which stunted his social connections.
“Compared to my fantasy world and the isolation of it and the construct of it, the regular world, reality, was like banal and like boring”
Listen from 14:44 · Monsters in art
Linked moment · 18:26Skip to 18:26 using a listen link in the info box.
Skinner
Skinner describes two creative portals, avoiding the uncomfortable writing and world-building work in favor of the drawing he is confident in.
“One is the easy one where I'm comfortable and I know exactly what I'm doing. And I usually use this one to avoid the other one, which is the uncomfortable portal”
Listen from 20:37 · Artistic anxiety and self-doubt
Skinner
Skinner argues that being authentic, afraid and not knowing is how the world gets healed because people stop pretending.
“it's the way in which I feel like the world does get healed because nobody's like when that happens, people aren't pretending”
Listen from 22:15 · Artistic anxiety and self-doubt
Palehorse
Palehorse says the monsters guarding temple entrances symbolize the resistance that appears whenever one moves toward healing.
“whenever you're going into that space to heal, to expand your consciousness, to overcome your spiritual amnesia”
Listen from 31:49 · Mythology as personal metaphor
Skinner
Skinner cites Guillermo del Toro's view that monsters are saints onto which people project isolation and shame.
“That's what I like about Guillermo del Toro's perspective on monsters, which is that they're like saints”
Listen from 34:33 · Monsters in art
Skinner
Skinner says his monster work metabolizes trauma, comparing his role to a turkey vulture transforming a corpse.
“they're metabolizing this thing so that like it becomes something else. It's like transformative”
Listen from 34:56 · Monsters in art
Skinner
Skinner argues that phobias and social harm arise when people refuse to own their darkness and make it the world's problem.
“my fear is for me to navigate. They they make their fear the world's problem”
Listen from 39:18 · Conspiracy theories and personal accountability
Skinner
Skinner uses Indra's net as a reminder to ask what he is contributing during difficult encounters.
“every opportunity is like a chance for me to kind of reflect on like wait how what does this mean for me though what am i doing”
Listen from 43:54 · Indra's net
Palehorse
Palehorse recounts an ayahuasca life review in which a feminine presence stopped giving him insight once he began self-criticism.
“if you're going to be beating yourself up and taking this, I'm going to stop giving you these introspections”
Listen from 45:34 · Ayahuasca ceremonies
Palehorse
Palehorse says he has drunk ayahuasca around fifteen times and uses it to practice tolerating discomfort rather than for psychedelic effect.
“over the years, I've probably drank ayahuasca maybe 15 times, something like that”
Listen from 48:16 · Ayahuasca ceremonies
Skinner
Skinner says he can detect hierarchical, bypassing dynamics at spiritual centers and distrusts them.
“there's a lot of spiritual bypassing going on here. You know, there's a lot of weird shit. I don't, I don't believe it”
Listen from 52:03 · Conspiracy theories and personal accountability
Skinner
Skinner concludes that when the problem is always other people there is no solution, a realization he frames as spiritual.
“Well, when the problem is the other people, there's no solution”
Listen from 58:30 · Conspiracy theories and personal accountability
Skinner
Skinner says he can no longer listen to angry screaming vocals and prefers soulful singers like Rob Halford and King Diamond.
“I can't listen to dudes like just screaming anymore with anger”
Listen from 1:02:59 · Heavy metal music
Skinner
Skinner recounts predicting at age eleven that a stepped-on ketchup packet would spray a woman's legs and that he would be blamed, which then happened.
“if somebody steps on that ketchup packet, it's going to spray on her legs and she's going to blame me for it”
Listen from 1:10:36 · Synchronicity
Palehorse
Palehorse cites Kirby Surprise's book to argue that noticing synchronicities can tip into paranoia and conspiracy thinking.
“synchronicities turn on for them. It turns into paranoid schizophrenia, that sort of like people think that everything is a conspiracy”
Listen from 1:13:58 · Synchronicity
Skinner
Skinner argues conspiracy belief is a way to control feelings about external forces while avoiding one's own shadow.
“The conspiracy stuff is wild because it's like a form of trying to control the way we feel in regards to external forces”
Listen from 1:15:24 · Conspiracy theories and personal accountability
Palehorse
Palehorse says he escaped conspiracy thinking by deliberately listening to opposing viewpoints and realizing a case could be made for anything.
“wow, like you can make a case for anything, like anything that I wanted to make a case for. I could do that”
Listen from 1:21:27 · Conspiracy theories and personal accountability
Skinner
Skinner attributes conspiracy belief to cultural atomization and people seeking agency over why their lives feel hard.
“our culture is so atomized and nihilistic and people don't have like a complete sense of connectivity or community”
Listen from 1:24:52 · Conspiracy theories and personal accountability
Skinner
Skinner says he now sees wrestling as a soap opera of characters and laments the loss of fully realized personas like Macho Man and Honky Tonk Man.
“I miss like a macho man or like honky tonk man or ravishing Rick Rude and stuff”
Listen from 1:29:22 · Professional wrestling
Palehorse
Palehorse describes co-developing five wrestler personas for art shows, including Serpentico, who went on to wrestle in AEW and lose over a hundred matches in a row.
“he like lost 115 matches in a row But like everybody loves him and it actually follows suit with the character”
Listen from 1:33:21 · Professional wrestling
Skinner Partly true
Skinner says the stop-motion film Shrine of Abominations is being edited and should be finished within a couple of months, with Realm Runners arriving in March.
“the stop motion film is getting edited. It should be done in a couple months and totally finally finished”
Listen from 1:36:01 · Shrine of Abominations
Skinner
Skinner closes by advising listeners to protect their spirit from things they cannot control, since worrying does not change outcomes.
“worrying about stuff doesn't change the outcome of anything. It just makes you feel sad and weird inside”
Listen from 1:42:20 · Artistic anxiety and self-doubt

People

In the conversation

PalehorseArtist and host of the Seekers of the Eternal podcast, also referred to as Chris
SkinnerOakland-based artist known for monster paintings; label also appears on short interjections and the closing Realm Runners narration

Discussed

Rick RubinAmerican record producer and author, a friend of Huberman's
Guillermo del ToroFilmmaker whose view of monsters as saints Skinner cites
Paramahansa YoganandaIndian yogi and author whose writings the host quotes at the episode's close
Jack KornfieldAmerican Buddhist teacher associated with Spirit Rock
Sharon SalzbergMeditation teacher quoted by Skinner as saying the healing is in the return
Ram DassAmerican spiritual teacher quoted as saying we are all just walking each other home
Rizwan VirkEntrepreneur and video game designer cited by Cohen as linking health problems to straying from his life path
Kirby SurprisePsychologist and author of a book on synchronicity
Brody KingProfessional wrestler in AEW's House of Black whom both speakers have met
Honky Tonk ManRetired professional wrestler Skinner praises as an underrated villain
Chet ZarDark surrealist painter and podcast host who previously interviewed Skinner
Joe RoganAmerican comedian and host of The Joe Rogan Experience
Marilyn MansonMusician whose 1998 concert Skinner attended
Rob HalfordJudas Priest vocalist Skinner cites as soulful
Luke KriegerWriter and director of the short film The Print in the Woods
SerpenticoMasked AEW luchador whose character Palehorse helped develop

Topics

From the publisher

EP 57: With Special Guest Skinner! Skinner is known for his wild, psyche-scrambling monster paintings, immersive installations, sculptures, animations, storytelling and collaborations spanning everything from major brands to underground creative movements. Skinner’s work is a psychedelic kaleidoscope of myth, fantasy, humor, and unfiltered emotion. SUMMARY In this conversation, Skinner and Palehorse explore the complexities of creativity, anxiety, and the pressures artists face in a world that often prioritizes external validation over authentic expression. They discuss the importance of presence, vulnerability, and self-acceptance in the creative process, as well as the role of mythology and spirituality in understanding one's journey. The dialogue emphasizes the transformative power of art and the necessity of navigating discomfort to foster genuine connections with oneself and others. In this engaging conversation, Palehorse and Skinner explore a variety of themes including the complexities of human interactions, the evolution of music, the concept of synchronicity, the impact of conspiracies on personal accountability, the journey of artistic expression, and the intersection of art and wrestling. They share personal anecdotes and insights that highlight the importance of positivity, creativity, and self-awareness in navigating life's challenges. SKINNER LINKS: Skinner Website Skinner Instagram Shrine of Abominations Stop Motion Film Realm Runners Board Game Skinner Store PALEHORSE LINKS: Online Store Instagram Portfolio Site TAKEAWAYS Breathing and meditating can help ground us in the moment. Anxiety often stems from the fear of not being understood. External pressures can lead to self-abandonment in creativity. Creativity is a journey of self-discovery and connection. Mythology provides insights into our personal narratives. Embracing discomfort can lead to growth in creativity. Compassion for our inner monsters is essential for healing. Vulnerability is a pow…

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 27, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Visual Arts·Spirituality·Personal Journals