Selects: The Soul Train Episode
Episode of Stuff You Should Know · July 18, 2026 · 47 min
Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant trace the history of Soul Train and its creator Don Cornelius, from Chicago origins to cultural legacy.
Summary
In this rerun of a 2020 Stuff You Should Know episode, hosts Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant discussed the television show Soul Train. Clark argued that while the dance-show format was borrowed from American Bandstand, Soul Train was revolutionary for presenting Black culture unapologetically and on its own terms; Bryant recalled watching it as a white child in Stone Mountain, Georgia, and cited testimonials from Cornel West, Common and GQ's Madeline Weeks.
The hosts recounted Don Cornelius's biography: a Marine and Chicago police officer who, after pulling over a WVON news director, took a broadcasting course and became a DJ and TV reporter. He self-funded the pilot at WCIU for $400, which the hosts said secured his full ownership, then moved the show to Los Angeles in 1971 for national syndication. They discussed sponsor Johnson Products, the dancers and the Soul Train line, co-creator Clinton Ghent, dancers who became famous such as Jody Watley, Carmen Electra and Rosie Perez, and Dick Clark's short-lived imitator Soul Unlimited.
The hosts also addressed Cornelius's flaws, including Perez's account of him grabbing her and a domestic violence charge, his discomfort with hip-hop (illustrated by an awkward Public Enemy interview), his 1993 departure, the show's run to 2006, and his death by suicide while ill. The episode closed with listener mail about Iron Maiden.
Chapters
- 1:47
Introduction and why Soul Train mattered
The hosts share memories of Soul Train and argue it was groundbreaking for presenting Black culture on its own terms.
- 7:13
Cultural influence and testimonials
Chuck reads quotes from Cornel West and Common, and the hosts discuss dance moves debuted on the show.
- 10:17
Don Cornelius and ownership
The hosts introduce Cornelius as creator and owner, including the James Brown anecdote.
- 16:16
From cop to broadcaster
Cornelius's path from Marine and police officer to DJ and TV reporter, and the origin of the Soul Train name.
- 21:01
Pilot, syndication and sponsors
Cornelius self-funds the pilot, moves to LA, and Johnson Products becomes the key sponsor.
- 29:43
Watching the show: intros, guests and dancers
Discussion of WCIU, the intro, musical guests, Gladys Knight, the Soul Train line and dancer rules.
- 36:52
Famous dancers and controversies
Dancers who became stars, the Rosie Perez incident, Cornelius's legal troubles and Dick Clark's Soul Unlimited.
- 44:16
White performers and Elton John
David Bowie and Elton John's appearances spark a debate over Elton John's 1970s music.
- 47:08
Hip-hop era, decline and legacy
Cornelius's discomfort with hip-hop, his departure, the show's end, his death and legacy.
- 53:39
Listener mail
A listener from Western Australia writes about Iron Maiden.
Key points
What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.
- Josh Clark
Clark argues Soul Train did not pioneer the dance-show format but was groundbreaking in how it presented Black teenagers and culture without apology.
“it's very, very difficult to overstate how revolutionary and groundbreaking Soul Train was, especially for how simple the show format was, basically”
- Chuck Bryant
Bryant recounts that Soul Train was made by and for Black people but served as his introduction to Black culture as a white child in Georgia.
“it was an introduction to black culture to white kids like me, little eight-year-old Chuck in Stone Mountain, Georgia, sitting around watching the Soul Train dance line”
- Josh Clark
Clark argues that before Soul Train, Black men on TV were mostly shown as criminals, protesters, sidekicks or servants.
“Or he was a sidekick on TV or a servant or in some kind of goofy comedy or something like that. And Soul Train didn't do that”
- Josh Clark
Clark says the moonwalk, originally called the backslide, and the robot were created on Soul Train.
“That was originally called the backslide. That was created on Soul Train. The robot, the rerun dance”
- Josh Clark
Clark stresses that Don Cornelius owned 100% of Soul Train, placing him with Desi Arnaz and Mike Douglas.
“This was 100% Don Cornelius' jam”
Linked moment · 21:01Skip to 21:01 using a listen link in the info box.
Chuck BryantBryant explains that Cornelius paid $400 for the pilot himself, which he believes prevented the station from claiming ownership.
“Because I think had they funded it, they would have had a real claim to it legally. But he put up 400 bucks of his own money, shot a pilot”
- Josh Clark
Clark argues Afro Sheen and Ultra Sheen were an ideal sponsor because they promoted natural Black hair rather than white beauty standards.
“These are hair products for African Americans to use when they're growing their hair naturally, not following, like, white beauty standards, right?”
- Josh Clark
Clark credits Clinton Ghent with assembling dancers who gelled like a family rather than competing.
“It did kind of have this really family vibe every episode. And apparently that was the work of the Clinton-Gent guy who just really knew how to put people together”
- Josh Clark
Clark says that, per Rosie Perez's account, Cornelius grabbed her after she wanted a lawyer to review a contract, and she threw fried chicken at him.
“she threw a piece of the fried chicken she was eating at the time right at his head and hit him in the face”
- Josh Clark
Clark argues Cornelius, despite his achievements, was a complex person with faults, citing his domestic violence charge.
“He was a complex human being who had faults as well, too”
- Chuck Bryant
Bryant criticizes Dick Clark for launching Soul Unlimited on ABC as a ripoff targeting the African-American market.
“But for him to go after the African-American market like that, I don't think was very cool”
- Josh Clark
Clark, citing articles, says Cornelius saw hip-hop as a step backward from integration-era aspirations, and personally thinks it clashed with his smoothness.
“My own personal take is that he was a smooth customer and he appreciated smoothness in hip hop, especially 80s hip hop was the opposite of smooth”
- Chuck Bryant
Bryant describes an awkward interview in which Cornelius largely ignored Chuck D in favor of Flavor Flav, suggesting he did not understand the group.
“It really came off as like, Don Cornelius doesn't understand this. I'm not dissing Flav, but like Chuck D was like, he was the leader of that band”
- Chuck Bryant
Bryant notes Cornelius's final episode was May 10, 1993, and the show ran until 2006 as the longest-running syndicated show.
“It went all the way to 2006 and became the longest running syndicated show in TV history”
- Josh Clark
Clark concludes Cornelius's greatest legacy was introducing Black culture as itself to the wider culture.
“But also to be like a cornerstone of like introducing black culture as black culture to the larger culture as a whole and white culture. Huge”
People
In the conversation
- Josh ClarkCo-host of Stuff You Should Know
- Chuck BryantCo-host of Stuff You Should Know
Discussed
- Don CorneliusCreator, host and owner of Soul Train
- Dick ClarkHost of American Bandstand and creator of Soul Unlimited
- Clinton GhentSoul Train co-creator and dancer scout
- Rosie PerezActress and former Soul Train dancer
- Jody WatleySinger who began as a Soul Train dancer
- Gladys KnightSinger whose restaurant faced online criticism, per Smiley
- James BrownSinger who asked Cornelius who backed his show
- Jesse JacksonCivil rights leader whose Rainbow PUSH Coalition breakfast Lemon was traveling to host
- Cornel WestPhilosopher quoted on Soul Train's importance
- CommonRapper and actor quoted about his babysitter dancing on Soul Train
- Elton JohnBritish singer-songwriter and collaborator of Brandi Carlile
- David BowieBritish singer whose lip-synced Soul Train appearance was teased
- Chuck DLeader of Public Enemy
- Flavor FlavPublic Enemy member
- Carmen ElectraActress who started as a Soul Train dancer
Topics
More from Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Plant MigrationJul 25, 2026 · 46 min
Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant explain how plants migrate, why climate change is outpacing them, and the debate over human-assisted migration of trees.
- Selects: The First Road Trip
Jul 11, 2026 · 50 min
Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant recount Horatio Nelson Jackson's 1903 drive from San Francisco to New York, the first cross-country automobile trip in America.
- Selects: How Enron Fooled the World
Jun 27, 2026 · 1 h
Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant recount the rise and collapse of Enron, from deregulation and the California energy crisis to accounting fraud, bankruptcy and its aftermath.
- Selects: Birthmarks: Probably Not the Mark of the Devil
Jun 20, 2026 · 50 min
Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant explain the types, causes, treatments, and folklore of birthmarks, plus a listener's list of band names from past episodes.
- Selects: How the Fairness Doctrine Worked
Jun 13, 2026 · 53 min
Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant trace the history of the FCC's Fairness Doctrine, from early radio regulation to its 1987 abandonment and debated legacy.
From the publisher
In this classic episode, Chuck and Josh dive into the funky, cool world of the classic TV show, Sooooooooul Train. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 30, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.