A Finals Pick, Greatest Knicks Ever, ‘Made’ N.Y.C. Stars, and Big NFL Trades With Max Kellerman
Episode of The Bill Simmons Podcast · June 2, 2026 · 2 h 8 min
Bill Simmons and Max Kellerman discuss the Myles Garrett and A.J. Brown trades, preview the Knicks–Spurs NBA Finals, rank the greatest Knicks, and weigh OKC's future.
Summary
Recorded the day before Game 1 of the 2026 NBA Finals, Bill Simmons hosted Max Kellerman. They opened with NFL trades: the Los Angeles Rams acquiring Myles Garrett from Cleveland for Jared Verse and three first-round picks, which Kellerman called a must-do swing for a team near a Super Bowl, and the New England Patriots trading a 2028 first for A.J. Brown, which both saw as a boost for Drake Maye. Tangents covered Matthew Stafford's Hall of Fame case, Eli Manning, and the value of elite wide receivers.
Previewing the Knicks–Spurs Finals, Simmons picked San Antonio, first in five and then amending to six, citing the long rest between games that helps Victor Wembanyama, the Spurs' tough Western Conference path, and matchup problems for Jalen Brunson. Kellerman rated the series roughly 60-40 for the Spurs and argued the Knicks become nearly unbeatable if Josh Hart shoots well. Both praised Wembanyama as perhaps the best player in the league and criticized officiating and flopping enforcement.
The pair then set criteria for greatness, favoring peak over career and comparison to contemporaries, and ranked the greatest Knicks: Simmons listed Willis Reed and Walt Frazier 1A/1B, Patrick Ewing third, Dave DeBusschere fourth, and Bernard King fifth, while Kellerman preferred Frazier first and questioned DeBusschere over Carmelo Anthony. They agreed a Brunson title would place him third. They also listed New York athletes who 'have the keys to the city.'
Finally, they discussed what the Oklahoma City Thunder should do after losing to the Spurs. Simmons favored patience, and Kellerman argued Chet Holmgren could grow from the defeat much as Stephen Curry did after 2016, while they floated trading Holmgren to the Clippers for the fifth pick.
Chapters
Linked moment · 2:35Skip to 2:35 using a listen link in the info box.
2:35Introduction and NFL upstaging the Finals
Simmons welcomes Kellerman and notes that the NFL made two blockbuster trades the day before the Knicks' Finals debut.
- 4:27
Myles Garrett trade to the Rams
The hosts break down the Rams' aggressive approach, Garrett's value, and Matthew Stafford's legacy.
- 16:04
A.J. Brown to the Patriots
They discuss the pick protections, Brown's fit with Drake Maye, the Eagles' offense, and the value of elite receivers, plus Giants Super Bowl memories.
- 28:29
Knicks–Spurs Finals preview
Picks and matchup analysis covering Mitchell Robinson, Wembanyama's fatigue, Spurs guards Castle and Harper, and Josh Hart's shooting.
- 47:47
Wembanyama, Jokić and officiating
They debate player greatness, the 'need to win versus love to play' framework, and physical defense and flopping rules.
- 56:57
Defining greatness
Kellerman and Simmons distinguish better from greater and favor peak over career, touching on LeBron's Miami years and all-time lineups.
- 1:09:24
Ranking the greatest Knicks
They rank Willis Reed, Walt Frazier, Patrick Ewing, Dave DeBusschere, Bernard King and Carmelo Anthony, and assess where Brunson fits.
- 1:31:34
New York's 'keys to the city' athletes
They list beloved New York stars from Namath and Jeter to Mattingly and Lawrence Taylor.
- 1:39:31
What should OKC do?
They discuss patience versus change for the Thunder, Chet Holmgren's future, and the Curry comparison.
- 1:59:28
Knicks' title window and wrap-up
They weigh whether this is the Knicks' best chance since 1994 and finalize picks.
Key points
What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.
- Max Kellerman
Kellerman argues the Rams had to make the Garrett trade and that it was worth the swing even if it fails.
“And then you add Miles Garrett, like, even if it doesn't work, it's worth the shot. Like, take a swing”
Listen from 9:49 · Myles Garrett trade to the Los Angeles Rams
- Max Kellerman
Kellerman argues Brown, who does not rely on separation, is an ideal receiver for a young quarterback like Drake Maye to take the next step.
“He's a nightmare because he doesn't need separation. He's going to catch the ball, right?”
Listen from 18:08 · A.J. Brown trade to the New England Patriots
- Max Kellerman
Kellerman argues an elite receiver is now the second most important position after quarterback in the NFL.
“when you have an actual elite top five guy, top 10 guy, it's other than the quarterback, the most important position on the field”
Listen from 22:13 · A.J. Brown trade to the New England Patriots
- Bill SimmonsDidn’t happen
Simmons picks the Spurs to win the Finals in six games and names Wembanyama as the likely Finals MVP.
“I like the Spurs to win the series. I like the Spurs in six, which is five to one odds”
- Bill Simmons
Simmons argues the long layoffs between Finals games will help Wembanyama and hurt the Knicks.
“Here's what I think really hurts the Knicks in this series is all the layoffs between the games”
- Max Kellerman
Kellerman predicts that if Josh Hart shoots well, the series will go seven games and the Knicks might win.
“If Josh Hart is hot in this series, this is going seven games and the Knicks might win”
- Max Kellerman
Kellerman rates the Finals as roughly a 60-40 series favoring the Spurs.
“I think it's a 60-40 type series favoring the Spurs. But 40 is a pretty damn good shot for the Knicks”
- Bill Simmons
Simmons criticizes defenders being allowed to shove big men like Wembanyama and Jokić before they reach their spots.
“You should be able to run to your spot without somebody pushing back like they have a blocking sled”
- Max Kellerman
Kellerman proposes treating flops like yellow cards, with two technicals leading to a suspension, to improve the product.
“it's a tech, two of them, and you should be suspended a game. Or like a yellow card”
- Max Kellerman
Kellerman says a Brunson championship would unquestionably make him the third-greatest Knick, behind Frazier and Reed.
“No, not, not. But he'd be third. He'd be, he'd unquestionably be third”
- Bill Simmons
Simmons ranks Willis Reed 1A and Walt Frazier 1B, followed by Ewing, DeBusschere and Bernard King.
“So I have Willis 1A and Frazier 1B. Okay. Ewing 3. The Buescher 4. Okay. Bernard 5”
- Max Kellerman
Kellerman argues analytics underrate Carmelo Anthony because the game changed underneath him.
“the analytics are going to underrate Carmelo because the game changed out from underneath his feet”
- Bill Simmons
Simmons argues the Thunder should ride it out rather than overreact after losing to the Spurs.
“The move is just to ride it out. You won the title last year. You went against a crazy freak”
- Max Kellerman
Kellerman argues Michael Jordan's perfect Finals record created an 'anxiety of influence' that has warped how basketball greatness is judged.
“He has created an anxiety of influence in basketball that has warped the way we think about basketball”
- Max Kellerman
Kellerman cautions against giving up on Chet Holmgren, comparing him to Stephen Curry maturing in the clutch.
“I still think that he is an example of how a player can mature in the clutch and not that Chet is Steph Curry”
- Bill SimmonsPrediction · due Oct 2026
Simmons predicts Mitchell Robinson will leave the Knicks next year because they cannot afford to pay him $20–25 million.
“You're probably not going to have Mitch next year. He's going to leave because I just don't think they can pay him 20 to 25 million bucks”
- Max Kellerman
Kellerman suggests the Knicks may be catching the Spurs a year before they become a dynasty.
“maybe they're catching the dynasty the year before it becomes a dynasty”
People
In the conversation
- Bill SimmonsSportswriter and founder of The Ringer, host of The Bill Simmons Podcast
- Max KellermanAmerican sports broadcaster and co-host of the Game Over podcast with Rich Paul
Discussed
- Victor WembanyamaSan Antonio Spurs center and MVP candidate
- Jalen BrunsonNew York Knicks guard
- Myles GarrettNFL defensive end traded from the Browns to the Rams
- A.J. BrownNFL wide receiver traded from the Eagles to the Patriots
- Matthew StaffordLos Angeles Rams quarterback
- Chet HolmgrenOklahoma City Thunder big man
- Walt FrazierHall of Fame Knicks guard
- Willis ReedHall of Fame Knicks center and two-time Finals MVP
- Patrick EwingHall of Fame Knicks center
- Carmelo AnthonyFormer Knicks forward
- Stephon CastleSan Antonio Spurs guard
- Josh HartNew York Knicks guard-forward
- Stephen CurryGolden State Warriors guard
- Michael JordanBasketball player used by Hudson in an example about condescending encouragement
- Nikola JokićNBA center for the Denver Nuggets known for triple-doubles
- Drake MayeNew England Patriots quarterback
Topics
Related episodes
The Giannis Never-Trade and a Mega-Mailbag With Zach Lowe, Plus Wyndham Clark’s Second U.S. Open Title With Joe HouseThe Bill Simmons Podcast · Jun 22, 2026 · 1 h 56 min
Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe discuss the Giannis Antetokounmpo trade saga and a listener mailbag, then Joe House recaps Wyndham Clark's U.S. Open win.
- NBA Draft Questions, Harper vs. Fox, and the USMNT’s World Cup Ceiling
The Bill Simmons Podcast · Jun 19, 2026 · 2 h 11 min
Bill Simmons previews the 2026 NBA draft and Finals fallout with Tim Legler, then discusses the USMNT's World Cup outlook with Anthony Dabbundo.
US Open With Shane Bacon, Best Of Kentucky Sports Radio Callers + HC Will Stein, Knicks Parade + FAQ’sPardon My Take · Jun 17, 2026 · 2 h 23 min
Pardon My Take hosts discuss the Knicks' title aftermath and World Cup draws, Shane Bacon previews the U.S. Open at Shinnecock, and Kentucky coach Will Stein joins during a Kentucky Sports Radio takeover.
- 2026 Finals Lessons, Giannis’s Next Stop, Brunson’s Apex, and Mike Brown’s Magic Touch With Doc Rivers
The Bill Simmons Podcast · Jun 17, 2026 · 1 h 60 min
Bill Simmons and Doc Rivers break down the Knicks' 2026 NBA Finals win over the Spurs, Jalen Brunson's legacy, Mike Brown's coaching, and Giannis trade scenarios.
- Why Brunson Is Top 50 All Time, a Finals Mega-Mailbag, and NBA Fake Trade Season With Joe House
The Bill Simmons Podcast · Jun 15, 2026 · 2 h 4 min
Bill Simmons and Joe House debate Jalen Brunson's all-time standing after the Knicks' 2026 title, NBA draft and trade scenarios, and a Finals mailbag.
Meltdown Over Patriotic UFC at White House, with Glenn Greenwald, and Justin Baldoni's Attorney Bryan Freedman Gives Exclusive Details of Settlement | Ep. 1339The Megyn Kelly Show · Jun 15, 2026 · 1 h 42 min
Megyn Kelly talks with Bryan Freedman about the Baldoni–Lively settlement, then with Glenn Greenwald about the Iran deal, the White House UFC event, and celebrities at the Knicks' title run.
More from The Bill Simmons Podcast
- A Rams Blame Game, Indy in Purgatory, the Pack’s Back, OJ’s Helper, Aikman Vs. Buck, the Slapper, and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal
Oct 19, 2026 · 1 h 59 min
Bill Simmons and Cousin Sal recap NFL Week 6, guess Week 7 lines, discuss the MLB playoffs, O.J. Simpson news and UCLA football, and trade parenting stories.
- NBA One Guy (the East!), a Man City Punishment Primer, and Tom Cruise’s Bomb With J. Kyle Mann, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan
Oct 6, 2026 · 2 h 13 min
Bill Simmons and J. Kyle Mann pick one key player per NBA Eastern Conference team, then Chris Ryan and Van Lathan discuss cable stars, Tom Cruise's 'Digger,' and Manchester City's punishment.
- Drake Mayday, a Raiders Revival, Bleakest 0-3 Teams, MLB Playoffs, and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal
Sep 28, 2026 · 1 h 45 min
Bill Simmons and Cousin Sal recap NFL Week 3, from Drake Maye's slump to the 3-0 Raiders, guess Week 4 lines, and discuss MLB playoffs and parenting.
- LeBron’s Philly Shocker! Plus, the 2011 NBA Redraftables With Zach Lowe.
Jul 24, 2026 · 1 h 46 min
Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe react to LeBron James signing with the Philadelphia 76ers, then redraft the 2011 NBA draft class.
- Spain Prevails, World Cup Winners and Losers, and Damon Vs. Leo With Chris Ryan and Anthony Dabbundo
Jul 20, 2026 · 1 h 50 min
Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan and Anthony Dabbundo react to Spain's 1-0 World Cup final win over Argentina, rank tournament winners and losers, and compare Matt Damon and Leonardo DiCaprio.
From the publisher
The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Max Kellerman to discuss the blockbuster Myles Garrett trade to the Rams (02:35) and the Patriots trade for A.J. Brown (16:05). Then, they preview the biggest storylines heading into a highly anticipated Knicks-Spurs NBA Finals (29:35). Finally, they discuss the greatest Knicks of all time (56:20), what’s next for OKC (1:39:30), and much more! Host: Bill SimmonsGuest: Max KellermanProducers: Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, Tucker Tashjian, and Chris Wohlers Brought to you by PayPal. Learn more at paypal.com Bundle and SaveBook now on Expedia.com The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 28, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.