OKC Gets Wobbled, Cleveland’s Done, and Knicks Nirvana Is Here (Maybe) With Zach Lowe and Sean Fennessey

Episode of The Bill Simmons Podcast · May 25, 2026 · 1 h 40 min

Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe break down Thunder–Spurs Game 4 and rank pressure on players, then Sean Fennessey joins to celebrate the Knicks' dominant playoff run.

Summary

Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe reacted to San Antonio's Game 4 win over Oklahoma City that evened the 2026 Western Conference finals at 2-2. Lowe described how the Spurs stopped trapping Shai Gilgeous-Alexander high and instead crowded him near the paint, while both noted the Thunder's lack of secondary creators with Jalen Williams and Ajay Mitchell injured. Simmons said Victor Wembanyama was the best player in two of the four games, criticized the officiating, and argued San Antonio now held the edge. The pair debated whether a series loss should push Oklahoma City toward a Giannis Antetokounmpo trade, and Simmons defended his All-NBA vote for Jalen Duren.

In a pressure ranking, Simmons put Chet Holmgren first while Lowe chose Gilgeous-Alexander, saying the moment tests whether he is an all-time great. They discussed Jared McCain's trade from Philadelphia, and Simmons argued Robert Horry must be named first among the greatest role players. Lowe picked the Spurs in Game 5 but stuck with the Thunder in seven; Simmons outlined a Cleveland reset keeping Evan Mobley.

Sean Fennessey then joined as the Knicks led Cleveland 3-0 in the East finals on a ten-game win streak. Fennessey credited coach Mike Brown's flexibility and bench use and praised Jalen Brunson as a franchise-defining player, while Lowe said the Knicks' failure to go all in for Donovan Mitchell ultimately saved them. The group compared a potential Knicks title to the 2011 Mavericks, discussed why the run was not a bigger national story, and Simmons credited owner James Dolan and the Leon Rose front office. The episode closed with complaints about the Mets and Red Sox, memories of a Connecticut mall, and Fennessey's recommendation of the Cannes film Club Kid.

Chapters

  1. 1:21

    Game 4 reaction: Spurs even the series

    Simmons and Lowe discuss San Antonio's defensive adjustment on Gilgeous-Alexander, the Thunder's missing creators, and Wembanyama's dominance.

  2. 8:11

    Lineups, injuries and series odds

    The hosts debate each team's best five, the Jalen Williams and Ajay Mitchell injuries, and whether the Spurs now hold the edge.

  3. 13:51

    Who the league roots for and Giannis talk

    They consider whether a series loss would push Oklahoma City toward a Giannis Antetokounmpo trade.

  4. 20:28

    Wembanyama's Game 3 and Chet's All-NBA nod

    Lowe explains Wembanyama's Game 3 struggles, and Simmons defends his All-NBA center votes and critiques Holmgren.

  5. 27:20

    Pressure rankings

    The pair draft the players and figures under the most pressure, including Holmgren, Gilgeous-Alexander, Wembanyama, the Spurs guards and Jared McCain.

  6. 43:42

    Mount Rushmore of role players

    Simmons argues Robert Horry is the definitive role player as they debate Caruso, Iguodala, Fisher and others.

  7. 50:08

    Game 5 picks and Cleveland's offseason

    Lowe and Simmons make Game 5 picks and discuss how the Cavaliers should reset after a likely sweep.

  8. 54:07

    Sean Fennessey on the Knicks' run

    Fennessey, Lowe and Simmons analyze the Knicks' ten-game win streak, Mike Brown's coaching, Brunson and the roster-building history.

  9. 1:12:59

    Comparing a Knicks title to the 2011 Mavericks

    The group debates whether a Knicks championship would be as beloved as Dallas's 2011 run and why the story isn't bigger nationally.

  10. 1:17:56

    Dolan's turnaround and the quiet front office

    Simmons credits James Dolan, and Fennessey notes Leon Rose's silence and the success of moves he initially doubted.

  11. 1:26:49

    Mets misery, Red Sox gripes and mall memories

    The conversation turns to baseball frustrations, a Stamford mall reminiscence, and a pickleball anecdote.

  12. 1:31:35

    Cannes pick and wrap-up

    Fennessey recommends the film Club Kid before the hosts sign off.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

  • Zach Lowe

    Lowe argues the Spurs changed their defense on Gilgeous-Alexander by dropping high traps and sending late, unpredictable help near the basket.

    “If you get to within 14 feet, we'll start darting guys at you, stunting guys at you. Maybe a hard double here and there”

    Listen from 4:01 · 2026 NBA playoffs

  • Bill Simmons

    Simmons says that after Game 4 he believes San Antonio now has the advantage in the series.

    “But now I honestly think San Antonio has the advantage now”

    Listen from 11:32 · 2026 NBA playoffs

  • Zach Lowe

    Lowe identifies Gilgeous-Alexander, Mitchell, Caruso, Jalen Williams and Holmgren as the Thunder's best lineup, two of whom are injured.

    “And the lineup would have been Shea, Mitchell, Caruso, J-Dub, Chet. And I think that's the best five that they can put out”

    Listen from 12:02 · Oklahoma City Thunder

  • Bill Simmons

    Simmons defends voting for a center on each All-NBA team despite the positionless rule change.

    “I'm voting centers every year for each team. And until, as long as I have a vote, I'm not changing”

    Listen from 23:40 · All-NBA Team

  • Bill Simmons

    Simmons says Chet Holmgren has underperformed his expectations in the series.

    “I honestly just thought he would have more of an impact than I'm from watching him this season”

    Listen from 25:10 · Oklahoma City Thunder

  • Zach Lowe

    Lowe argues Holmgren has reached a stature where he must impose himself on every series, not only favorable matchups.

    “At some point, you reach a stature where every series has to be your series”

    Listen from 25:55 · Oklahoma City Thunder

  • Zach Lowe

    Lowe says Gilgeous-Alexander must problem-solve his way out of Wembanyama's defense, framing it as a test of all-time greatness.

    “The precipice is digging out of this series”

    Listen from 28:12 · 2026 NBA playoffs

  • Bill Simmons

    Simmons argues Robert Horry must be the first name in any discussion of the greatest role players.

    “Robert Horry has to be the first person you mentioned. It can't be Alex Caruso. It can't be Derek Fisher”

    Listen from 44:47 · Role players in the NBA

  • Zach LoweDidn’t happen

    Lowe predicts the Spurs win Game 5 but keeps his pick of the Thunder winning the series in seven games.

    “Sticking with Thunder and seven, though. I'm sticking with Thunder and seven”

    Listen from 50:48 · 2026 NBA playoffs

  • Bill Simmons

    Simmons argues trading Mobley for Giannis would be absurd because Cleveland's real problem is a backcourt that cannot defend.

    “Their issue was that they have a backcourt of Donovan Mitchell and James Harden who can't guard any guards”

    Listen from 52:14 · Cleveland Cavaliers

  • Zach Lowe

    Lowe believes the Knicks have found a sustainable level and can win the championship.

    “I think this is the team And this is the level of play we're going to see going forward”

    Listen from 56:24 · New York Knicks

  • Sean Fennessey

    Fennessey credits Mike Brown's flexibility and willingness to play the bench for the Knicks' run, calling Thibodeau's firing a relief.

    “Mike Brown is flexible, man. And he plays the bench and the bench has been a huge part of this run”

    Listen from 57:17 · New York Knicks

  • Linked moment · 1:02:57Skip to 1:02:57 using a listen link in the info box.

    Zach Lowe

    Lowe argues the Knicks' reluctance to go all in for Donovan Mitchell ultimately saved the franchise.

    “The bottom line is they did not go as all in as they needed to go all in. And I think it unquestionably saved them”

    Listen from 1:02:57 · New York Knicks

  • Sean Fennessey

    Fennessey says Brunson is unlike any previous Knick and is entering the franchise's all-time conversation.

    “There has never been a New York Knick like him. There are very few players in the NBA like him”

    Listen from 1:04:36 · New York Knicks

  • Bill SimmonsCame true

    Simmons predicts the Knicks will sweep Cleveland, citing a Game 3 play where the Cavaliers appeared to quit.

    “Game four is already over because there was a play at the end of game three that made me convinced the Knicks are going to sweep them”

    Listen from 1:10:56 · Cleveland Cavaliers

  • Zach Lowe

    Lowe argues a Knicks title would be nearly as rapturous as the 2011 Mavericks run because the Knicks are the city's team and the drought is so long.

    “It's the city's game. They're the city's team. And it's been so goddamn long that I think it would be as rapturous as the Mavs one”

    Listen from 1:15:48 · 2011 Dallas Mavericks championship

  • Sean Fennessey

    Fennessey suggests the run feels less stunning nationally because the Knicks are beating teams they have beaten before and were expected to contend.

    “It doesn't feel like as triumphant and stunning a run to the finals”

    Listen from 1:16:49 · New York Knicks

  • Bill Simmons

    Simmons credits James Dolan with becoming a good owner after two decades of dysfunction, including pushing to fire Thibodeau.

    “And Dolan's been a good owner. He's let those guys do their thing”

    Listen from 1:18:50 · New York Knicks

  • Sean Fennessey

    Fennessey notes that most of the front office's big moves looked like mistakes to him at the time but all worked out.

    “I would say six of the eight big moves that they've made since this new administration came in, when they happened, I was like, that's not a good idea”

    Listen from 1:21:46 · New York Knicks

  • Zach Lowe

    Lowe says he would have picked the Knicks over Detroit despite the Pistons' regular-season sweep of New York.

    “I think the Knicks were just qualitatively a better team than Detroit”

    Listen from 1:26:14 · Detroit Pistons

People

In the conversation

  • Bill SimmonsSportswriter and founder of The Ringer, host of The Bill Simmons Podcast
  • Zach LoweRinger NBA analyst referenced repeatedly
  • Sean FennesseyThe Ringer film writer, host of The Big Picture and New York Knicks fan

Discussed

Topics

More from The Bill Simmons Podcast

From the publisher

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe react to Game 4 between the Thunder and Spurs before making a pressure ranking of the series and discussing role players (1:17). Then, Sean Fennessey comes on to discuss the ECF with the Knicks looking to close out the series against the Cavs (54:06). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Zach Lowe and Sean Fennessey Producers: Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Chris Wohlers The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 28, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Basketball·Sports News