They Protested ICE. Now They’ve Been Convicted of Terrorism.

Episode of The Daily · October 27, 2026 · 47 min

Michael Barbaro and Janet Reitman examine the Prairieland case, the first federal terrorism prosecution of American protesters, labeled an Antifa cell after an ICE protest shooting.

Summary

Michael Barbaro spoke with New York Times reporter Janet Reitman about the prosecution of activists who held a fireworks noise protest outside the Prairieland Detention Center, a privately run ICE facility near Dallas, on July 4, 2025. Reitman described a loosely connected left-wing scene in Dallas-Fort Worth, galvanized by Texas policies and the deadly 2021 winter storm, some of whom found community in the Socialist Rifle Association around a former Marine named Ben Song. She recounted that Song had proposed taking over the facility, an idea others rejected, and that during the protest he opened fire on local police lieutenant Thomas Gross, wounding him in the shoulder.

Reitman explained that state attempted-murder charges were escalated after the assassination of Charlie Kirk, when the Trump administration designated Antifa a terrorist organization and directed aggressive domestic terrorism investigations. Acting U.S. attorney Nancy Larson, whom Reitman said former prosecutors described as eager to please the administration, charged the group with material support for terrorism, using vandalism, fireworks as explosives and the shooting as predicate terrorist acts. Reitman described a Fort Worth trial in which prosecutors relied on Signal chats, guns, a book club and testimony from Antifa commentator Kyle Scheidler, whose framework shaped the indictment, and which she called circular reasoning.

All nine defendants were convicted of material support for terrorism; Song alone was convicted of attempted murder and received 100 years, while others received sentences of 30 to 70 years. Reitman argued the sentences far exceeded typical terrorism sentences and warned that, unless overturned on appeal, the precedent could be used by future administrations against any political group. The episode closed with news of Anthropic's IPO filing.

Chapters

Linked moment · 1:01Skip to 1:01 using a listen link in the info box.
1:01
The shooting at Prairieland
Barbaro recounts the July 4, 2025 call from an ICE detention center near Dallas and the shooting of a police lieutenant.
2:47
Why the case is unprecedented
Reitman explains this was the first federal terrorism prosecution of American protesters and the first case against a so-called Antifa cell.
4:46
The Dallas-Fort Worth activist scene
Reitman describes a patchwork left-wing community radicalized by Texas policies and the 2021 winter storm.
8:13
The Socialist Rifle Association and Ben Song
Activists find community in the SRA, where former Marine Ben Song becomes an informal leader and weapons trainer.
11:01
Planning the noise protest
The group plans a July 4 fireworks protest, rejecting Song's proposal to take over the facility.
14:27
The night of the protest
Fireworks, unplanned vandalism and Song's gunfire wounding Lieutenant Thomas Gross lead to arrests.
20:05
Charlie Kirk's killing and the administration's response
After Kirk's assassination, Trump designates Antifa a terrorist organization and orders domestic terror investigations.
25:26
Material support for terrorism charges
Acting U.S. attorney Nancy Larson brings terrorism charges using three predicate crimes.
29:17
The Fort Worth trial
Prosecutors present chats, guns, a book club and Kyle Scheidler's testimony defining Antifa-like behavior.
36:00
Verdict and sentences
All defendants are convicted of material support for terrorism and receive sentences of 30 to 100 years.
39:50
Implications for protest and terrorism law
Reitman warns that bad facts made bad law that future administrations could use against any group.
46:52
Headlines: Anthropic IPO filing
Barbaro reports Anthropic's IPO filing revealing surging revenue and debt.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

Janet Reitman
Reitman says the Prairieland case was the first time the federal government tried American protesters on terrorism-related charges.
“this was really the first time that the federal government has ever tried American protesters on either the right or the left for terrorism-related charges”
Listen from 3:43 · Material support for terrorism
Janet Reitman
Reitman argues Antifa is not an organization with cells but a loose, decentralized anti-fascist movement.
“It's a very loose, decentralized movement of left-wing activists whose ideology is kind of broadly anti-fascist”
Listen from 4:26 · Antifa
Janet Reitman
Reitman says Texas knew for years its power grid was weak before the 2021 storm and never fixed it.
“They had a very weak power grid. They knew it. They had known it for about 10 years”
Listen from 7:34 · February 2021 North American winter storm
Janet Reitman
Reitman reports that Ben Song proposed taking the facility using suppressive fire, an idea the group rejected.
“And he says, oh, no, no, no, we're going to lay down suppressive fire. It's just suppressive fire”
Listen from 14:09 · Prairieland Detention Center shooting
Janet Reitman
Reitman says Trump's Antifa terrorist designation was symbolic because no legal mechanism exists for designating domestic groups.
“there is no actual legal mechanism to designate Antifa as a terrorist organization”
Listen from 24:01 · Designation of Antifa as a terrorist organization
Janet Reitman
Reitman reports that, according to former prosecutors, Nancy Larson had been looking to please the Trump administration.
“had for a long time since she'd been appointed in the spring of that year, in fact, been looking to please the Trump administration”
Listen from 25:44 · United States Department of Justice
Janet Reitman
Reitman argues that using the material support statute against protesters is a 'nuclear option' the DOJ had avoided because of First Amendment concerns.
“It's very close to treading on speech, treading on the First Amendment. And so to use it is kind of the nuclear option”
Listen from 27:24 · Material support for terrorism
Janet Reitman
Reitman says it was highly unusual for a civilian like Kyle Scheidler to help word a federal terrorism indictment.
“This is highly unusual for any civilian, non-DOJ employee, non-lawyer, to be consulting with the prosecutors on any wording of a federal terrorism indictment”
Listen from 34:04 · Antifa
Janet Reitman
Reitman describes Scheidler's testimony that the absence of violent talk in chats reflected security culture, which she called circular logic.
“And he says, well, of course not, because that would be a violation of security culture”
Listen from 35:03 · Antifa
Janet Reitman
Reitman says most people convicted of material support for terrorism receive under ten years, far less than the Prairieland sentences.
“most people who are prosecuted for material support for terrorism in this country receive under 10 years”
Listen from 38:12 · Material support for terrorism
Janet Reitman
Reitman reports Ben Song received 100 years although Lieutenant Gross's injury was minor.
“Ben Song, who shot at Lieutenant Gross, was given a sentence of 100 years. And Lieutenant Gross's injury was relatively minor”
Listen from 38:46 · Prairieland Detention Center shooting
Janet Reitman
Reitman argues the defendants' belief system, which judges could consider at sentencing, drove the extreme sentence lengths.
“the judge who sentenced them could use the ideology to impose these extremely long sentences”
Listen from 39:21 · Material support for terrorism
Janet Reitman
Reitman disputes that the jury was unsympathetic, saying jurors were boxed in by the terrorism framing.
“I don't even think this was an unsympathetic jury”
Listen from 40:31 · Prairieland Detention Center shooting
Janet Reitman
Reitman warns the precedent could later be used against the right, noting January 6 participants could have been charged similarly.
“So while this was used against the left, For years or five years from now, it could easily be used against the right”
Listen from 42:58 · January 6 United States Capitol attack
Janet Reitman
Reitman believes that without the police shooting the activists likely would not have been prosecuted, at least not as they were.
“Without the shooting of the police officer, I'm not sure these guys would have gotten prosecuted”
Listen from 43:36 · Political violence in the United States
Michael Barbaro
Barbaro argues the case creates a system in which terrorism is in the eye of the beholder, contrary to U.S. legal tradition.
“we have a system from the top on down, the president on down, where terrorism is in the eye of the beholder”
Listen from 45:13 · Political violence in the United States
Janet Reitman
Reitman concludes the Prairieland case marks a dangerous turn in how the U.S. brands political activity as terrorism.
“I think this is a dangerous corner that we've turned in this case”
Listen from 46:26 · Material support for terrorism
Michael Barbaro Prediction · due Nov 2026
Barbaro reports that Anthropic's IPO, expected the following month, could value the company at up to $2 trillion.
“Anthropix IPO, expected next month, could value the company at up to $2 trillion”
Listen from 46:52 · Anthropic

People

In the conversation

Michael BarbaroAmerican journalist and host of The New York Times podcast The Daily
Janet ReitmanNew York Times journalist covering national security and extremism; author of The Inheritance

Discussed

Ben SongDefendant and former Marine who fired the shot that hit the officer; sentenced to 100 years
Thomas GrossAlvarado police lieutenant shot outside the detention center
Nancy LarsonActing U.S. attorney in Dallas who brought the terrorism charges
Kyle ScheidlerRight-wing commentator on Antifa who testified for the prosecution
Daniel Sanchez EstradaHusband of a Prairieland protester sentenced to 30 years for concealing documents
Charlie KirkAmerican conservative activist and podcast host assassinated in September 2025
Donald TrumpPresident of the United States whose conduct of the Iran war is the episode's main subject
Greg AbbottRepublican governor of Texas
Stephen MillerWhite House deputy chief of staff and architect of the administration's immigration agenda
JD VanceVice President of the United States

Topics

891: The Test Case
This American Life · Jul 13, 2026 · 1 h 11 min
Zoe Chace reports on the federal trial over the July 4 Prairieland Detention Center shooting, where the government tried to prove an Antifa terror cell existed.
1064. Andy & DJ CTI: Iran Terror Plot Fears, Nor'easter Slams East Coast & Rising NASCAR Star Attacked
REAL AF with Andy Frisella · Sep 29, 2026 · 1 h 25 min
Andy Frisella and DJ discuss a foiled suspected Iranian plot at RAF Fairford, Andrew Bailey's FBI resignation, voter demoralization, a Nor'easter, sports fights and a pulled GoFundMe.

From the publisher

The strange story behind the first federal terrorism prosecution of American protesters.

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on October 28, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: News·Politics·Government