#2497 - Gad Saad

Episode of The Joe Rogan Experience · May 12, 2026 · 2 h 43 min

Gad Saad presents his book "Suicidal Empathy" and debates Joe Rogan on Islam, the Iran war, Israel's lobby and the Gaza war.

Summary

Evolutionary behavioral scientist Gad Saad appeared to promote his new book "Suicidal Empathy: Dying to Be Kind" and announced that he is moving permanently from Montreal's Concordia University to the University of Mississippi. He framed the book as a companion to "The Parasitic Mind": where the earlier book described ideas hijacking reason, the new one described empathy misapplied to the wrong targets, using the hairworm-parasitized wood cricket as a metaphor. He cited examples such as rape victims sympathizing with their attackers and "Queers for Palestine" activists, and recounted his family's flight from Lebanon and his parents' kidnapping by the Abu Nidal group.

Saad argued that Islam is inherently political and expansionist, contrasting it with anti-proselytizing Judaism, and proposed that Jew hatred stems from resentment of a "market dominant minority," citing Amy Chua and Thomas Sowell. Rogan pushed back repeatedly, arguing that U.S. interventions in Iran, Iraq and Libya helped produce current regimes and extremism, that the Iraq WMD rationale was fabricated, and that the Israel lobby exerts outsized influence on U.S. politics, pointing to the Iran war and New York mayoral candidates' pledges to visit Israel. Saad countered that Iran's regime and ISIS bear most responsibility for their actions and that foreign, including Qatari, funding shapes U.S. universities.

The longest dispute concerned Gaza. Rogan argued that the scale of destruction explained rising anti-Israel sentiment in the U.S.; Saad maintained that most such sentiment is rooted in Jew hatred predating October 7, defended Israel's conduct as reasonable given its aims, and described Israel as an open, pluralistic society. Saad closed by describing death threats he received in Montreal, criticizing Quebec's immigration policy, praising Donald Trump's boldness, and arguing that the level of social conflict tracks the Muslim share of a population.

Chapters

0:03
Big news and the new book
Saad introduces "Suicidal Empathy," cites recent examples, and announces his permanent move to the University of Mississippi.
3:19
From parasitic ideas to suicidal empathy
Saad explains the wood cricket metaphor, the golden mean of empathy, blank-slate thinking about felons, and cases of victims empathizing with attackers.
13:37
Cultural relativism, immigration and religion
The two discuss cultural relativism, assimilation, left-wing orthodoxy, and pro-Hamas activism among queer protesters.
21:54
Saad's background in Lebanon
Saad describes cultural theory of mind, his family's escape from the Lebanese Civil War, and his parents' kidnapping by the Abu Nidal group.
29:15
Islam versus Judaism
Saad argues religions differ fundamentally, calling Islam inherently political and a successful proselytizing 'marketing' religion.
34:42
Israel's influence and the Iran war
Rogan raises concerns about AIPAC and opposes the Iran war; Saad argues the U.S. acted on shared interests, not Israeli puppeteering.
45:31
U.S. intervention and causality
Rogan blames U.S. meddling for outcomes in Iran, Libya and Iraq, while Saad argues local regimes and ISIS bear most responsibility.
1:03:29
China, American exceptionalism and the Gulf
They compare the U.S. and China, and discuss whether Islam can modernize as in the UAE and Saudi Arabia.
1:20:32
Islamic expansionism and a theory of Jew hatred
Saad describes Dar al-Islam doctrine and explains antisemitism via the self-serving bias and market-dominant minorities; Rogan counters with Asian Americans.
1:37:08
Lobbies, Mamdani and university funding
Rogan cites mayoral candidates' pledges to visit Israel; Saad points to Qatari and Islamic funding of American universities.
1:51:51
Debating Gaza
Rogan and Saad clash over whether Gaza's destruction or antisemitism drives anti-Israel sentiment, casualty ratios, hostages, and Sinwar.
2:21:45
Israeli society, Quebec and death threats
Saad describes Israeli pluralism and happiness, Quebec's immigration policy, threats he received, and his demographic warning about Islam.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

Gad Saad
Saad presents his new book as completing The Parasitic Mind by describing the hijacking of the emotional system alongside the cognitive one.
“If I can hijack both your cognitive and emotional systems, you become a wood cricket, which we could talk about what that reference is if you want”
Listen from 4:40 · The Parasitic Mind
Gad Saad
Saad argues empathy is a virtue that becomes harmful when there is too little or too much of it, following Aristotle's golden mean.
“The problem with empathy is like most things in life, is if there's too little or too much of it”
Listen from 5:43 · Suicidal Empathy: Dying to Be Kind
Gad Saad
Saad recounts that his parents were kidnapped by the Abu Nidal group on a return trip to Lebanon.
“On one of their return trips to Lebanon, they were kidnapped by Abu Nidal's group, Fatah”
Listen from 23:35 · Lebanese Civil War
Gad Saad
Saad contends that political Islam is inherent to Islam rather than a radical offshoot.
“So political Islam and Islamism is a indelible inherent feature of Islam. Much of Islam is Islamism”
Listen from 31:26 · Islam
Gad Saad
Saad, speaking as a consumer behavior scholar, describes Islam as a highly effective proselytizing religion compared with Judaism.
“from a marketing perspective as someone who studies consumer behavior islam is a brilliant marketing religion”
Listen from 32:38 · Islam
Gad Saad
Saad rejects the idea that Israel puppeteered the United States into war with Iran.
“They're all wood crickets that are being puppeteered by this incredibly powerful lobby called Israel. That simply doesn't pass the smell test”
Listen from 36:24 · Israel lobby in the United States
Joe Rogan
Rogan says he opposes the Iran war because it lacks a clear resolution.
“I don't think it's a good idea. Why? Well, because first of all, it doesn't seem to have a clear resolution, right?”
Listen from 37:36 · United States war with Iran
Joe Rogan
Rogan argues that Iran's current regime exists largely because of U.S. and British intervention over oil.
“there's a really good argument that that terrible regime is in place because of the CIA and because of the United States government”
Listen from 45:31 · United States war with Iran
Joe Rogan
Rogan argues U.S.-backed removal of Gaddafi turned Libya into a failed state.
“And so they got rid of him and Libya became a failed state”
Listen from 45:31
Gad Saad
Saad speculatively assigns only a small share of responsibility for Iran's regime to the U.S. and most to the regime itself.
“Let's ascribe 10 out of the 100 points to whatever power the U.S. wields in that region to have allowed that regime to come in”
Listen from 49:42 · United States war with Iran
Joe Rogan
Rogan asserts that the weapons of mass destruction rationale for the Iraq War was deliberately fabricated.
“I think the whole weapons of mass destruction narrative was complete bullshit that was cooked up to give an excuse to go over there and take over Iraq”
Listen from 1:00:43 · Iraq War
Gad Saad
Saad, citing Thomas Sowell, argues that Jews are hated because they succeed disproportionately as a market-dominant minority.
“If the Jews were suddenly no longer succeeding in ways that are anomalous to their per capita numbers, then maybe they wouldn't be as hated”
Listen from 1:35:32 · Antisemitism
Joe Rogan
Rogan counters that Asian Americans also outperform yet do not face comparable hatred.
“Extremely disciplined family environment, pushed incredibly hard to succeed, but don't get nearly the kind of hate that Jewish people do”
Listen from 1:35:53 · Antisemitism
Joe Rogan
Rogan attributes part of Mamdani's victory to his refusal to pledge an immediate trip to Israel.
“one of the reasons why Mamdani won in New York City is because when they had the mayoral debate, he was the only one that said he's not immediately going to go to Israel”
Listen from 1:39:24 · 2025 New York City mayoral election
Joe Rogan
Rogan argues Israel's response to October 7 has generated significant anti-Israel sentiment in the United States.
“But the response, I think, has created a lot of... of anti-Israel sentiment in the United States”
Listen from 1:41:32 · Gaza war
Gad Saad
Saad argues that critics of the pro-Israel lobby should equally object to Islamic-based funding of American universities.
“there are Islamic-based funding to all of the American universities that have parasitized your daughters and mine in ways that should be problematic”
Listen from 1:44:19 · Israel lobby in the United States
Gad Saad
Saad contends that most anti-Israel sentiment is ultimately rooted in Jew hatred.
“I think most of the anti-Israel sentiments, ultimately, if you scratch enough the onion and peel enough the stuff, is rooted in Jew hatred”
Listen from 1:52:06 · Antisemitism
Gad Saad
Saad judges that Israel conducted the Gaza war as well as possible given its objectives.
“I think that given what they were trying to achieve, they did the best that could possibly be”
Listen from 2:06:27 · Gaza war
Gad Saad
Saad cites John Spencer's analysis that the Gaza civilian-to-combatant death ratio compares favorably to similar conflicts.
“the ratio of civilian to fighters killed in the Gaza war is better than most other comparable situations”
Listen from 2:11:08 · Gaza war
Gad Saad
Saad concedes to Rogan that bombing Gaza is creating a new generation of terrorists, while placing root blame on October 7.
“that would give them a hundred percent you're right that you are creating a new generation of terrorists”
Listen from 2:18:40 · Gaza war
Linked moment · 2:31:11Skip to 2:31:11 using a listen link in the info box.
Gad Saad
Saad says he is leaving Concordia largely because being an openly pro-Israel Jewish professor there became untenable.
“In large part because it became difficult for me, if not impossible, to be a high-profile Jewish professor who supports the right of Israel to exist”
Listen from 2:31:11 · Concordia University
Gad Saad
Saad claims social conflict escalates predictably as the Muslim share of a population rises.
“When you're three to 5%, you become a lot more engaged politically. When you become six to 10%, you start creating sharia no-go zones”
Listen from 2:33:58 · Islam
Gad Saad
Saad praises Trump as a bold leader and interprets the assassination attempts against him as evidence he threatens the status quo.
“The reason why Donald Trump has had not one, not two, but three assassination attempts, that is a testament to the fact that he is a danger to the status quo”
Listen from 2:34:22

People

In the conversation

Joe RoganAmerican comedian and host of The Joe Rogan Experience
Gad SaadLebanese-born Canadian evolutionary behavioral scientist, scholar at the University of Mississippi and author of "The Parasitic Mind" and "Suicidal Empathy"

Discussed

Donald TrumpPresident of the United States whose conduct of the Iran war is the episode's main subject
Benjamin NetanyahuPrime Minister of Israel
Thomas SowellAmerican economist and social theorist
Amy ChuaYale law professor who coined 'market dominant minorities'
Yahya SinwarHamas leader and architect of the October 7 attack
Zohran MamdaniNew York Democratic politician described by Pape as a left-wing parallel to Trump's rapid rise
Glenn GreenwaldAmerican journalist
Bill MaherComedian and talk show host
Muammar GaddafiFormer ruler of Libya
Saddam HusseinFormer Iraqi leader deposed in the 2003 U.S. invasion
Yasser ArafatFormer chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization
Abu NidalPalestinian militant leader whose group kidnapped Saad's parents
John SpencerUrban warfare researcher associated with West Point
Yossi CohenFormer director of the Mossad
Edward SaidPalestinian-American academic at Columbia University
Bill ClintonU.S. president Jiang associates with the Washington Consensus and Oslo peace process
Brigitte GabrielLebanese-American activist

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From the publisher

Dr. Gad Saad is a scholar at the Declaration of Independence Center for the Study of American Freedom at the University of Mississippi and host of “The Saad Truth.” His new book, “Suicidal Empathy: Dying to Be Kind,” is available now. www.harpercollins.com/products/suicidal-empathy-gad-saadwww.youtube.com/@GadSaadwww.gadsaad.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Uber Eats makes last-minute gifting easy. https://www.ubereats.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 28, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Politics·Islam·Books