JRE MMA Show #181 with Justin Gaethje & Trevor Wittman

Episode of The Joe Rogan Experience · June 20, 2026 · 2 h 24 min

Joe Rogan talks with new UFC lightweight champion Justin Gaethje and coach Trevor Wittman about Gaethje's title win over Ilia Topuria at the White House.

Summary

Joe Rogan hosted Justin Gaethje and his coach Trevor Wittman five days after Gaethje won the UFC lightweight title against Ilia Topuria, a heavy betting favorite, at the UFC event held on the White House grounds. Gaethje described the win as not yet feeling real, and the three broke down the fight: Gaethje argued that Topuria's body shots in the second round led Topuria to exhaust himself chasing a finish, and Wittman explained a game plan built on moving left, attacking the rear shoulder and jabbing from outside. They also discussed the outdoor heat and humidity, sauna-based preparation, the rain-delayed rehearsal, and referee Mark Goddard's decision to let the fight continue.

Gaethje reflected on lessons from earlier losses, especially that he had not been mentally prepared or afraid enough before his knockout loss to Max Holloway, and on his shift from purely all-action fighting to a more selective style after losses to Eddie Alvarez and Dustin Poirier. He spoke openly about past drug use, a 2016 overdose that he said he believes nearly killed him, and credited his Christian faith and his parents for keeping him on track. He also credited wrestling for his mental toughness.

On weight cutting, Wittman raised concerns that dehydration may contribute to late-round deaths in boxing, while Gaethje said he wants no rule changes. Gaethje said Topuria does not deserve a rematch, that he plans to rest for the rest of the year because of a bone edema in his fibula, and that the UFC should compensate him with equity. The group discussed Ciryl Gane's win over Alex Pereira and grievances about referees Mike Beltran and Marc Goddard's peers. Wittman and Rogan promoted Wittman's Onyx gloves as superior to UFC gloves, with Gaethje arguing the priority should be fighter comfort rather than preventing eye pokes. The episode closed with hunting stories.

Chapters

Linked moment · 0:12Skip to 0:12 using a listen link in the info box.
0:12
Becoming champion
Rogan congratulates Gaethje on his White House title win and Gaethje and Wittman describe their coach-athlete relationship.
6:58
Expectations and the Topuria fight
Gaethje and Wittman analyze how Topuria's expectations and second-round body attack shaped the fight.
21:58
Lessons from the Holloway loss
Gaethje explains he was not mentally prepared against Max Holloway and reviews other career mistakes.
31:17
Drugs, faith and a change in style
Gaethje discusses past drug use and his faith, and Wittman describes shifting him toward spot fighting.
43:37
Heat, rain and the White House setting
The group discusses sauna preparation, the outdoor conditions, the rehearsal and walkout at the White House.
57:23
The game plan
Wittman and Gaethje break down footwork, jab placement and the decisive right hand against Topuria.
1:05:33
Character after the knockout loss
Wittman recounts Gaethje's gracious reaction in the ambulance after the Holloway knockout.
1:10:14
Weight cutting and hydration
They debate weight classes, dehydration risks and Gaethje's habit of not drinking water in training.
1:17:29
Critics, future fights and compensation
Gaethje discusses online comments, his desire for UFC equity, and potential opponents including Arman Tsarukyan.
1:31:53
Gane vs. Pereira and referees
The group reviews Ciryl Gane's win over Alex Pereira and Gaethje's complaints about past referee decisions.
1:47:18
Wrestling, parents and injury
Gaethje credits wrestling and his parents, describes his fibula injury, and plans to rest for the year.
1:57:44
Onyx gloves and hunting
Wittman demonstrates his gloves and discusses UFC talks, before the conversation turns to hunting.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

Justin Gaethje
Gaethje argues that Topuria hurting him with body shots was a main reason he won, because it led Topuria to spend everything chasing a finish.
“I told Trevor yesterday, I think, you know, him hurting to my body was one of the main reasons I won”
Listen from 11:33 · Justin Gaethje vs. Ilia Topuria
Justin Gaethje
Gaethje says his win changed how future opponents perceive Topuria, as he believes he did with Tony Ferguson.
“I didn't break Tony Ferguson's confidence. I changed the perception of his opponents”
Listen from 17:32 · Justin Gaethje vs. Ilia Topuria
Justin Gaethje
Gaethje says he was not mentally prepared for the Max Holloway fight.
“The truth of the matter is, psychologically, I was not there. I was not prepared mentally for the fight when I fought Max Holloway”
Listen from 22:32 · Justin Gaethje vs. Max Holloway
Justin Gaethje
Gaethje credits his parents taking him to church and his faith with giving him a sense of purpose.
“the best thing they ever did for me was make me go to church every single Sunday”
Listen from 33:21 · Christianity
Trevor Wittman
Wittman says that after losses to Alvarez and Poirier he pushed Gaethje to become a spot fighter rather than trying to drown opponents.
“all right, we got to become a spot fighter because you just drown people”
Listen from 36:19
Trevor Wittman
Wittman argues strike counts are misleading and judges should weigh damaging blows rather than touches.
“And that's why judges can't look at a screen and go, oh, this guy landed more”
Listen from 38:23 · Refereeing in mixed martial arts
Joe Rogan
Rogan argues the White House event and Gaethje's upset win surpass historic fights like the Rumble in the Jungle.
“This is more historic than Rumble in the Jungle”
Listen from 50:50 · UFC White House event
Justin Gaethje
Gaethje says Topuria likely misread his movement because of how he leans, while he was actually moving left.
“he's going to think I was moving right the whole time because my head is so heavy and I lean over to that side”
Listen from 57:38 · Justin Gaethje vs. Ilia Topuria
Justin Gaethje
Gaethje says he wants no changes to weight-cutting rules because fighters are adults making their own choices.
“For me, I want nothing to change. I mean, we are grown-ass men and women, and we're making these choices”
Listen from 1:12:53 · Weight cutting in mixed martial arts
Trevor Wittman
Wittman says his research suggests most recent boxing deaths occur late in fights and suspects dehydration from weight cutting plays a role.
“What stood out to me was almost every death in boxing in the last 10 to 15 years comes after”
Listen from 1:13:46 · Weight cutting in mixed martial arts
Justin Gaethje
Gaethje says the UFC should compensate him for past performances by giving him equity in a company.
“the UFC should make a company and give me equity in that company”
Listen from 1:27:38 · Ultimate Fighting Championship
Justin Gaethje
Gaethje says Topuria does not deserve an immediate rematch because he quit on his stool.
“No, he doesn't get a rematch. He can try, but he doesn't get one”
Listen from 1:30:05 · Justin Gaethje vs. Ilia Topuria
Justin Gaethje
Gaethje says referee Mike Beltran failed to protect him after an eye poke in the Michael Chandler fight.
“But his job is to protect me and he failed he failed so bad right there”
Listen from 1:38:33 · Refereeing in mixed martial arts
Justin Gaethje Prediction · due Dec 2026
Gaethje says he will not fight again for the rest of the year so his fibula bone edema can heal.
“And so I'm going to take the rest of the year. I need my body to heal”
Listen from 1:48:30
Justin Gaethje
Gaethje says wrestling is the biggest factor in his success because of its individual accountability.
“is the biggest variable when it comes to my success. I mean, the mental side of it”
Listen from 1:51:07 · Amateur wrestling
Justin Gaethje
Gaethje recounts that his last drug use, around 2016, ended with him waking in an ambulance believing he had died.
“The last time I ever did drugs, I woke up in an ambulance, and I'm pretty sure I died”
Listen from 1:57:06 · Addiction and recovery
Trevor Wittman
Wittman says Hunter Campbell of the UFC recently contacted him to reopen talks about his gloves.
“So Hunter reached out to me three weeks ago, four weeks ago, and said he wanted to ignite a conversation again”
Listen from 1:58:51 · Onyx Sports
Justin Gaethje
Gaethje argues current UFC gloves are poor because they make it hard to form a fist and cause pain, and that fighter comfort should be the design priority.
“Because the gloves we're fighting in now are fucking terrible. It's hard to make a fist”
Listen from 2:00:45 · MMA gloves and eye pokes
Joe Rogan
Rogan proposes gloves covering the fingertips, claiming they would drastically reduce eye pokes.
“Something that covers over the tips of the fingers. You would have fucking 80% less eye pokes”
Listen from 2:01:12 · MMA gloves and eye pokes
Trevor Wittman
Wittman claims his gloves would produce more knockouts through better hand position and grip.
“Our gloves were going to cause more knockouts because of better hand position, better grip strength”
Listen from 2:03:55 · Onyx Sports

People

In the conversation

Joe RoganAmerican comedian and host of The Joe Rogan Experience
Justin GaethjeAmerican mixed martial artist and Nurmagomedov's final opponent
Trevor WittmanAmerican boxing and MMA coach and founder of the Onyx combat-sports equipment brand

Discussed

Ilia TopuriaUFC lightweight champion
Max HollowayUFC fighter scheduled to face Conor McGregor
Marc GoddardMMA referee who officiated Gaethje vs. Topuria
Donald TrumpPresident of the United States whose conduct of the Iran war is the episode's main subject
Paddy PimblettEnglish UFC fighter whose walkout Von described
Ciryl GaneFrench UFC heavyweight who beat Alex Pereira on the White House card
Alex PereiraBrazilian two-division UFC champion
Herb DeanAmerican MMA referee
Mike BeltranMMA referee in the Schilling fight
Michael ChandlerAmerican UFC fighter Gaethje previously fought
Khabib NurmagomedovRussian former mixed martial artist from Dagestan who retired as UFC lightweight champion with a 29-0 record
Tony FergusonAmerican UFC fighter Gaethje defeated for an interim title
Charles OliveiraBrazilian UFC fighter and BMF champion who beat Gaethje
Arman TsarukyanUFC lightweight who also competes in wrestling
Luke CaudilloGaethje's friend and training partner

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From the publisher

Joe is joined by UFC Lightweight Champion Justin Gaethje & boxing and MMA trainer Trevor Wittman. https://www.youtube.com/@justin_gaethje https://onxsports.com/ Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan onX Offroad: Try onX Offroad for 50% off- go to https://onXmaps.com/joerogan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 29, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Sports·Wrestling