Judge Graf Shows ZERO Confidence Despite MOUNTAINS of Evidence in Tyler Robinson Hearing, Lance Twiggs DOWNPLAYS His "Trans" Identity, w/ Aronberg, Frei, Eiglarsh, Murphy & Spilbor | Ep. 1357
Episode of The Megyn Kelly Show · July 10, 2026 · 1 h 44 min
Megyn Kelly and legal analysts Dave Aronberg, Viva Frei, Matt Murphy, Mark Eiglarsh and Jonna Spilbor dissect day five of Tyler Robinson's preliminary hearing.
Summary
On day five of the preliminary hearing for Tyler Robinson, accused in the assassination of Charlie Kirk, Megyn Kelly sharply criticized Judge Tony Graf for delaying a probable-cause ruling until a September 1 oral argument and for entertaining defense complaints after a two-second broadcast of Robinson's handwritten note to Lance Twiggs. She reviewed evidence including the engraved cartridge casings, Twiggs' recorded testimony that he knew Robinson engraved bullets about a month before the shooting, and online posts that she suggested indicated foreknowledge, replaying an interview in which FBI Director Kash Patel said such posts were under investigation.
Viva Frei and Dave Aronberg discussed Twiggs' apparent downplaying of his transgender identity; Frei said he believed Twiggs lied about never discussing politics, while Aronberg found the testimony broadly credible. Both argued cameras and transparency counter conspiracy theories, criticized the judge's compromise banning broadcast of exhibits, and rejected defense attorney Michael Burt's claim that Erika Kirk had revealed evidence at press conferences. They also assessed an ATF examiner's inconclusive bullet-fragment comparison.
In a second panel, Matt Murphy, Mark Eiglarsh and Jonna Spilbor examined defense challenges to DNA mixture evidence, the rise of conspiracy theories and their impact on jury selection, and the judge's two-month delay, which all eventually agreed was unusual. Kelly argued the engravings showed a left-wing, trans-related motive, Spilbor suggested Robinson wanted to be caught, and the panel discussed how aggravating and mitigating factors and victim impact testimony would shape a death penalty phase in Utah.
Chapters
- 0:01
Kelly criticizes Judge Graf
Kelly attacks the judge's indecision and the plan to delay a probable-cause ruling until September.
- 6:54
Engraved cartridge evidence
Sgt. Faumuina's testimony about the engraving on the chambered cartridge and Kelly's interpretation of it.
- 11:43
Lance Twiggs' testimony
Twiggs' video testimony about the Dremel, politics and his name Luna, and Kelly's view that he downplayed his trans identity.
- 18:20
The note and alleged online foreknowledge
Kelly reads Robinson's note and revisits online posts and Kash Patel's answer on the investigation.
- 24:34
Frei and Aronberg on Twiggs
The panel debates Twiggs' credibility and whether the hearing is becoming a trial on the merits.
- 28:55
Handwriting exhibit and cameras in court
Discussion of the two-second exhibit broadcast, the defense's push to remove cameras, and the judge's ruling.
- 40:38
Defense attack on Erika Kirk
Michael Burt accuses Erika Kirk of revealing evidence, which the panel disputes.
Linked moment · 47:47Skip to 47:47 using a listen link in the info box.
47:47Inconclusive ballistics testimony
ATF examiner Samantha Karner's inconclusive bullet comparison and its relevance to probable cause.
- 53:36
DNA evidence challenges
Live testimony on DNA statistics and Murphy's explanation of mixtures and major/minor contributors.
- 1:02:31
Conspiracy theories and juries
The second panel debates conspiracy theories, jury selection and how to respond to skeptics.
- 1:16:27
Criticism of Erika Kirk and the judge's delay
Kelly discusses fair criticism of Erika Kirk, and the panel agrees the two-month delay is unusual.
- 1:24:58
Surrender, crickets and motive
Custody video, the crickets texts and Ring audio, remaining engravings, and discussion of political motive.
- 1:38:54
Death penalty prospects
The panel discusses mitigation, aggravation, victim impact testimony and Utah juries.
Key points
What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.
- Megyn Kelly
Kelly criticized Judge Graf as lacking the confidence to rule from the bench despite being a former prosecutor.
“I can't believe this guy was a prosecutor and he has this little confidence to rule from the bench”
- Megyn Kelly
Kelly argued the defense seeks delay because the case carries the death penalty.
“So they just want to delay everything because it's the death penalty case”
- Kash Patel
Patel said online posts suggesting foreknowledge of the killing were under investigation and had been shared with prosecutors.
“most definitely under investigation. And we've disclosed a lot of that to the prosecution or all of it that we have”
- Viva Frei
Frei warned the drawn-out process risks turning preliminary hearings into trials on the merits in the public's eyes.
“de facto converting preliminary hearings into trials on the merits, if not as a matter of law, just as a matter of public reality”
- Viva Frei
Frei said he believes Lance Twiggs lied in claiming he and Robinson never discussed politics.
“I do think he's lying about the fact that they never discussed politics”
- Dave Aronberg
Aronberg found Twiggs' testimony credible while allowing that he may know more than he admits.
“I do think that Lance Twiggs' testimony, from what I saw, was credible. I do think it's possible that he knows more than he lets on”
- Dave Aronberg
Aronberg argued the defense opposes cameras because conspiracy theories benefit the defense by potentially producing hung juries.
“Because conspiracy theories help the defense. All the people talking garbage on the internet, that works to the benefit of the defense”
- Viva Frei
Frei called the judge's compromise banning broadcast of exhibits an idiotic ruling.
“So it's an idiotic ruling. When you split the baby, you kill the baby”
- Dave Aronberg
Aronberg characterized the defense attack on Erika Kirk as a strategy to recast her push for transparency as jury tainting.
“This is strategy, Megan, because Erica Kirk and the Kirk family, they're advocating for transparency, for open access to evidence”
- Megyn Kelly
Kelly theorized that public resentment toward Erika Kirk stems from her not being Charlie.
“Erica's problem with the PR to me is she's not Charlie”
- Viva Frei
Frei argued the inconclusive bullet comparison goes to reasonable doubt, not probable cause, which is amply met.
“We have everything else that we need to get to the probable cause where we've got, you know, tenfold over what we need to be”
- Matt Murphy
Murphy explained that modern sensitive equipment makes DNA mixtures common on nearly every swab.
“you get a DNA mixture on just about every swab. It's almost becoming rare that you'll have a single source DNA”
- Mark Eiglarsh
Eiglarsh argued the defense should save its challenges for trial and seek a plea to life imprisonment.
“Save it for the trial that he will lose. and try to work this case out to life”
- Megyn Kelly
Kelly said that despite widespread distrust she still believes the legal process will work on evidence.
“I maybe I am naive and I will be proven totally wrong on this, but I still believe in the legal process”
Listen from 1:05:01 · Conspiracy theories in the United States
- Matt Murphy
Murphy initially defended the judge as playing the long game to protect the conviction on appeal.
“he wants to ensure that he indulges everything the defense raises. to ensure the integrity of the conviction during the appellate process”
- Jonna Spilbor
Spilbor rejected the extra-caution rationale, saying the judge should bind Robinson over now.
“Bind this guy over for trial because there's ample evidence to do that”
- Matt Murphy
Murphy conceded a more experienced judge would likely have ruled immediately on probable cause.
“A more experienced jurist would probably make the call today. That's what that's what we're all expecting”
- Matt Murphy
Murphy said his bigger jury-selection worry is politically aligned jurors who view the murder as acceptable, more than conspiracy theorists.
“More so than the conspiracy theorists, what I'd be worried about in jury selection in this is people that come in that align politically”
- Megyn Kelly
Kelly argued the bullet engravings clearly reveal Robinson's motive.
“Like we have very good evidence of what the motivation was by Tyler Robinson. Very good. It's on the bullets”
Listen from 1:37:04 · Political violence in the United States
- Jonna Spilbor
Spilbor theorized that Robinson wanted to be caught, given the extensive trail of evidence he left.
“In my mind, Tyler Robinson wanted to be caught. You do not leave a trail of breadcrumbs that large and that unmistakable”
- Mark Eiglarsh
Eiglarsh warned mitigation evidence could sway a single juror, and any outcome short of death would be seen as failure.
“And that to me is the challenge for prosecutors because anything other than death, people will deem this a failure”
- Megyn Kelly
Kelly argued Utah juries are more likely than California's to impose the death penalty.
“Utah's full of Christians, Mormons. They're law abiding. There are a lot of red state voters there”
- Matt Murphy
Murphy described victim impact testimony as the most powerful evidence he has seen in court.
“that is the most powerful thing evidence I've ever seen in a courtroom”
People
In the conversation
- Megyn KellyConservative broadcaster and podcaster
- Viva FreiCanadian lawyer turned Rumble host and commentator
- Dave AronbergFormer Florida state attorney and co-host of The MK True Crime Show
- Matt MurphyFormer prosecutor quoted asking where the district attorney is in the Guthrie case
- Mark EiglarshFlorida criminal defense attorney and co-host of Positively Legal
- Jonna SpilborCriminal defense attorney and co-host of Positively Legal
- Kash PatelDirector of the Federal Bureau of Investigation
Discussed
- Charlie KirkAmerican conservative activist and podcast host assassinated in September 2025
- Tyler RobinsonSuspect in the Charlie Kirk assassination
- Erika KirkAmerican figure Trump reportedly told to sue over a comedy sketch
- Nate EatonEast Idaho News reporter covering the hearing
- Crystal MangumFalse accuser in the Duke lacrosse case
- Neil HeslinSandy Hook victim's father interviewed by Kelly
- Alex JonesAmerican radio host and founder of InfoWars
- Audrey HalePerpetrator of the 2023 Nashville school shooting
- Luigi MangioneAccused killer of a health insurance executive, cited as an example of an affluent perpetrator
- Mark GeragosAmerican criminal defense attorney who represented Michael Jackson; co-host of In the Well
- Nikolas CruzParkland school shooter who received a life sentence
Topics
- Tyler Robinson preliminary hearing
- Assassination of Charlie Kirk
- DNA evidence
- Cameras in the courtroom
- Conspiracy theories in the United States
- Capital punishment
- Firearm and toolmark identification
- Jury selection
- Political violence in the United States
- Turning Point USA
- Federal Bureau of Investigation
- Duke lacrosse case
- Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting conspiracy theories
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From the publisher
Megyn Kelly starts the show by discussing "feckless" Judge Tony Graf showing zero confidence from the bench in Tyler Robinson hearing, how he's delaying a probable cause ruling despite extensive evidence presented in court, Lance Twiggs’ statements about the bullet engravings and Robinson’s political views, additional evidence surrounding the events leading up to Kirk's assassination, and more. Then, Megyn is joined by legal experts Dave Aronberg and Viva Frei to discuss Lance Twigg's video testimony in the Tyler Robinson hearing, why he was seemingly downplaying his "trans" identity, his comments about Robinson’s political views, and more. Plus, Megyn is joined by Mark Eiglarsh and Jonna Spilbor, hosts of “Positively Legal,” and Matt Murphy, co-host of "In The Well," to discuss the defense challenging the DNA evidence in the Tyler Robinson case, what the evidence could mean for the prosecution, the alleged surveillance footage of Tyler Robinson, text messages between Robinson and Lance Twiggs, the engraved cartridge casings recovered in the case, what the evidence may reveal about Robinson’s alleged motive, and more. Subscribe to MK True Crime to find ALL the shows: Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mk-true-crime/id1829831499 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4o80I2RSC2NvY51TIaKkJW YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MKTrueCrime?sub_confirmation=1 Frei- https://vivabarneslaw.locals.com/ Sundays for Dogs: Upgrade your dog’s food without the hassle—try Sundays for Dogs and get 50% off your first order at https://sundaysfordogs.com/MEGYN or use code MEGYN at checkout. Quo: Make this the season where no opportunity slips away. Try QUO for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months when you go to https://www.Quo.com/MK Supersure Insurance: Upgrade your business insurance to a year-round SuperAgency at https://Supersure.com/Megyn DailyLook: https://dailylook.com to take your style quiz and use code MEGYN for 50% off your first order.
Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 30, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.