The DEFINITIVE Deep Dive on Every Michael Jackson Allegation From 1993, 2003, and 2013, with Andrew Hammel | Ep. 1327

Episode of The Megyn Kelly Show · May 28, 2026 · 1 h 55 min

Megyn Kelly and lawyer-journalist Andrew Hammel review the Michael Jackson abuse allegations from 1993 through the Leaving Neverland accusers, weighing evidence against accuser credibility.

Summary

Megyn Kelly opened by discussing the commercial success of the 2026 biopic Michael and its omission of the abuse allegations, which she attributed to settlement agreements binding the estate. She introduced Andrew Hammel, author of the Quillette article "Never Neverland," which she said offered a compelling presentation of the case against Jackson grounded in police findings rather than accuser testimony.

Hammel recounted the 1993 Jordan Chandler case, including the civil suit, the court-ordered body search, and the discovery during the Neverland search of two books of nude boy photographs linked to NAMBLA figures. Kelly called the books close to decisive. Hammel described the roughly $15.3 million settlement, La Toya Jackson's later-retracted accusations, the marriages to Lisa Marie Presley and Debbie Rowe, the Martin Bashir documentary, and the Gavin Arvizo allegations that led to the 2005 trial. He said the acquittal was reasonable because defense attorney Tom Mesereau exposed that prior-bad-act witnesses had sought money, and because Janet Arvizo was not credible.

The pair then turned to Wade Robson and James Safechuck of Leaving Neverland, with Kelly highlighting credibility problems such as Safechuck's alleged abuse at a train station not built until 1994, and both expressing doubt about the Cascio family's recent claims. Kelly read from Kenneth Lanning's FBI-derived description of preferential child molesters and said Jackson's conduct matched it. Hammel concluded that Jackson was a pedophile who, he believed, in an unknown number of cases sexually abused children, and argued that his art can be enjoyed but always with an asterisk, calling any omission of the allegations a whitewash.

Chapters

  1. 0:00

    The Michael biopic and the allegations

    Kelly discusses the success of the film Michael, its omission of abuse allegations, and her aim to present both sides.

  2. 10:40

    Jordan Chandler and the 1993 investigation

    Hammel explains how Chandler met Jackson, how the civil suit and criminal investigation began, and the body search Jackson protested.

  3. 19:45

    Books found at Neverland

    Hammel and Kelly discuss the nude-boy photo books found in Jackson's locked bedroom drawer and their NAMBLA-linked creators.

  4. 27:36

    Las Vegas, the settlement, and dropped charges

    The pair cover June Chandler's acquiescence, the 1994 settlement, and why prosecutors did not charge Jackson.

  5. 38:31

    La Toya Jackson and the genital description

    Hammel describes La Toya Jackson's retracted accusations and the disputed match between Chandler's description and police photographs.

  6. 44:30

    Marriages and the Bashir documentary

    They discuss Lisa Marie Presley, Debbie Rowe, an antisemitic song, and the damaging Living with Michael Jackson documentary.

  7. 1:02:02

    The Arvizo allegations and 2005 trial

    Hammel explains Gavin Arvizo's claims, the second search, Mesereau's defense, and Janet Arvizo's damaging testimony.

  8. 1:13:18

    Hush money and the aborted World of Wonder film

    They discuss Diane Dimond's $200 million figure and a nearly produced film portraying Jackson and Chandler as lovers.

  9. 1:21:12

    Robson, Safechuck, and the Cascios

    Kelly and Hammel examine the credibility problems of the Leaving Neverland accusers and the Cascio family.

  10. 1:36:24

    Preferential pedophile profile

    Kelly reads Kenneth Lanning's grooming profile and Hammel explains how Jackson's behavior matched it.

  11. 1:46:16

    Verdict and separating art from artist

    Hammel gives his conclusion that Jackson was a pedophile and argues his art can be enjoyed only with an asterisk.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

  • Megyn Kelly

    Kelly says the biopic omitted the abuse allegations because settlement agreements with accusers bound the estate not to speak of them.

    “they had signed settlement agreements with whatever young men were depicted in the film, agreeing never to speak of them”

    Listen from 2:22 · Michael (2026 film)

  • Andrew Hammel

    Hammel argues that none of the accusers' parents went to the police first but instead sought lawyers and money.

    “none of the accuser's parents ever went to the police first”

    Listen from 12:26 · Michael Jackson child sexual abuse allegations

  • Andrew Hammel

    Hammel reports that two books of nude boy photographs, popular among pedophiles, were found in a locked drawer in Jackson's bedroom in 1993.

    “These books were found in 1993 in a locked drawer of a file cabinet in Michael Jackson's master bedroom”

    Listen from 19:45 · Neverland Ranch

  • Megyn Kelly

    Kelly argues there is no legitimate reason for a non-pedophile to possess such books.

    “No non-pedophile has books in a locked drawer in their bedroom with naked pictures of little boys”

    Listen from 22:09 · Neverland Ranch

  • Andrew Hammel

    Hammel says FBI data show only about a quarter of convicted pedophiles possess explicit child pornography, while many own legal books like these.

    “only 25% of them have explicit child pornography because they know that that's illegal and extremely dangerous and many avoid it”

    Listen from 24:44 · Pedophilia

  • Andrew Hammel

    Hammel states that about $15.3 million of the 1994 settlement went to Jordan Chandler in trust, with mutual non-disparagement terms.

    “we know that $15,300,000 was paid to Geordie Chandler in a trust account and about $1 to $2 million to his parents”

    Listen from 32:24 · Michael Jackson child sexual abuse allegations

  • Andrew Hammel

    Hammel notes that the match between Chandler's genital description and police photos remains disputed, citing the autopsy's finding on circumcision.

    “at his autopsy in 2009, the coroner said his penis appears uncircumcised”

    Listen from 43:48 · Michael Jackson child sexual abuse allegations

  • Megyn Kelly

    Kelly says she is frustrated that every accuser took money while those who took none defend Jackson.

    “The few witnesses who come forward who didn't take money defend Michael, like Macaulay Culkin, like Brett Barnes”

    Listen from 1:05:44 · Michael Jackson child sexual abuse allegations

  • Andrew Hammel

    Hammel judges the 2005 acquittal reasonable because of holes in the prosecution's witness case.

    “acquittal was appropriate under the circumstances because there are so many holes in the prosecution's case because of these witnesses”

    Listen from 1:07:57 · People v. Jackson (2005 trial)

  • Tom Mesereau

    Mesereau says he is fully convinced Jackson never abused a child and views the accusations as financially motivated.

    “I am 100% convinced. Michael never abused a child, never harmed a child, certainly never molested a child. I think this is hogwash”

    Listen from 1:09:39 · People v. Jackson (2005 trial)

  • Andrew Hammel

    Hammel argues the prosecution erred by adding kidnapping-style charges that made Janet Arvizo a central, non-credible witness.

    “that was a bad mistake by the prosecution because, you know, Janet Arvizo took the stand. She snapped her fingers at the jury”

    Listen from 1:11:35 · People v. Jackson (2005 trial)

  • Andrew Hammel

    Hammel reports that World of Wonder raised $4 million for a nearly produced film portraying Jackson and Chandler as lovers.

    “They had raised $4 million for a pro-pedophile movie about the erotic romance between Michael Jackson and Geordie Chandler”

    Listen from 1:17:25 · World of Wonder

  • Andrew Hammel

    Hammel characterizes Robson's and Safechuck's lawsuits against Jackson's estate as a stretch and a money grab.

    “So the lawsuits are a real stretch, and they are a money grab, and they were eventually dismissed”

    Listen from 1:23:46 · Leaving Neverland

  • Megyn Kelly

    Kelly argues Safechuck's account is undermined because the Neverland train station where he alleged abuse was not built until 1994.

    “it's public record that that train station didn't go up until 94. So there's no way James Safechuck was abused in that in 1991”

    Listen from 1:28:00 · Leaving Neverland

  • Andrew Hammel

    Hammel doubts the Cascio family's allegations because they received a $16 million settlement in 2020 before going public.

    “They received a settlement of $16 million in 2020. And now the money's run out”

    Listen from 1:35:09 · Michael Jackson child sexual abuse allegations

  • Andrew Hammel

    Hammel says pedophilia prevalence is very low and that offenders are typically in trusted positions with access to children rather than strangers.

    “the vast majority are in positions of authority and respect where they can have contact with children, like in churches, schools, and youth groups”

    Listen from 1:45:35 · Pedophilia

  • Andrew Hammel

    Hammel concludes that Jackson was a pedophile who showed a consistent pattern of grooming young boys.

    “there is a consistent pattern of him seeking out inappropriate contact with young boys and engaging in clear grooming behavior with young boys”

    Listen from 1:46:32 · Child grooming

  • Linked moment · 1:51:24Skip to 1:51:24 using a listen link in the info box.

    Andrew Hammel

    Hammel argues Jackson's music can be enjoyed but any account omitting the abuse is dishonest.

    “It must always be mentioned. And anything that doesn't mention it is a whitewash and dishonest”

    Listen from 1:51:24 · Separating art from the artist

People

In the conversation

Discussed

  • Jordan ChandlerBoy whose 1993 accusation against Jackson ended in a civil settlement
  • Evan ChandlerLos Angeles dentist and Jordan Chandler's father
  • June ChandlerJordan Chandler's mother
  • Gavin ArvizoAccuser in Jackson's 2005 criminal trial
  • Janet ArvizoGavin Arvizo's mother and a prosecution witness in 2005
  • Wade RobsonAustralian choreographer and Leaving Neverland accuser
  • James SafechuckFormer child actor and Leaving Neverland accuser
  • Lisa Marie PresleySinger and Michael Jackson's first wife
  • Debbie RoweMichael Jackson's second wife and mother of two of his children
  • Dan ReedDirector of Leaving Neverland
  • Kenneth LanningFormer FBI child sexual abuse specialist and author on child molesters
  • Diane DimondJournalist who reported on the Jackson allegations for Hard Copy
  • Tom SneddonSanta Barbara County district attorney who prosecuted Jackson
  • Joe JacksonFather and manager of the Jackson family, parodied in a Druski sketch
  • Macaulay CulkinActor and Jackson friend who has denied being abused
  • Mark GeragosAmerican criminal defense attorney who represented Michael Jackson; co-host of In the Well
  • Jafar JacksonMichael Jackson's nephew who plays him in Michael
  • Oprah WinfreyAmerican broadcaster whom Nguyen said he met while traveling with his Zen teacher

Topics

More from The Megyn Kelly Show

From the publisher

Megyn Kelly is joined by Andrew Hammel, lawyer and journalist, to talk about the need to explore all sides of the allegations against Michael Jackson, the Jordy Chandler story which started the questions about Jackson's relationship with children in 1993, the circumstances of the first civil and criminal case against Jackson, the shocking and disgusting discovery during the 1993 search of Neverland, the evidence of Michael Jackson's pedophilia, the relevance that Jackson wouldn't settle at first and went to trial, what happened with Michael Jackson from 1993 to 2003, his two marriages to Lisa Marie Presley and Debbie Rowe, the damaging Martin Bashir interview showing disturbing interactions with Jackson's own kids, the significance of Michael Jackson's accusers all taking monetary payouts, those who haven't taken money and say Jackson wasn't an abuser, the problems for prosecutors in the 2005 trial, the latest allegations against Michael Jackson from Wade Robson and James Safechuck, the way their stories changed and the holes in their allegations, the outstanding questions about Jackson and his treatment of children, and more. More from Hammel- https://x.com/andrewhammel1 Birch Gold: Text MK to 989898 for a free info kit and to see if you qualify for up to $10,000 back through May 29. SelectQuote: Compare top‑rated life insurance options. Visit https://SelectQuote.com/megyn to get the right coverage at the right price. Cozy Earth: This Memorial Day, visit https://www.CozyEarth.com & Use code MEGYN for up to 30% off ARMRA: go to https://tryarmra.com/MEGYN to get 30% off your first subscription order

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 28, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: True Crime·Music·TV & Film