#346 James Lechner - Army Ranger Recounts the Battle of Mogadishu: Black Hawk Down

Episode of The Shawn Ryan Show · October 8, 2026 · 3 h 20 min

Retired Army Ranger James Lechner tells Shawn Ryan about fighting and being wounded in the 1993 Battle of Mogadishu, turning around Ramadi, Afghanistan policy failures, and the war in Ukraine.

Summary

James Lechner, a retired U.S. Army lieutenant colonel, recounted his 27-year career to Shawn Ryan, beginning with his upbringing near Rochester, New York, his time at The Citadel, his unwanted assignment to the artillery, and a last-minute selection into the 3rd Ranger Battalion. He described being pulled into Bravo Company as its fire support officer hours before it deployed with Task Force Ranger to Somalia in 1993, the unit's standardized raid template, early missions including the capture of Osman Atto, and cultural friction between Rangers and Delta operators, which he said was overstated in the film Black Hawk Down.

Lechner gave a detailed first-hand account of the October 3, 1993 raid: the decision to leave night vision and water behind, the RPG shootdown of Cliff Wolcott's Black Hawk, the foot movement toward the crash site, radio jamming caused by the crash beacon on UHF, and calling AH-6 gunships in close. He described being shot below the knee, nearly bleeding out in the casualty collection point, the overnight UN relief convoy, and two years of recovery at Walter Reed. He argued the task force erred by lacking a single ground commander and by repeating a predictable template that al-Qaeda-trained fighters exploited.

He then covered war-crimes manhunts in Bosnia, building and leading an Iraqi Army battalion at Samarra, and serving as deputy brigade commander under Sean MacFarland in Ramadi, where he credited tribal engagement with Sheikh Sattar, Jocko Willink's SEALs, and local police recruitment with turning the city around at heavy cost. He sharply criticized senior U.S. military leaders, State Department policy, and rules of engagement in Afghanistan, while rejecting isolationism.

On Ukraine, where he served with the International Legion, Lechner said U.S. troops should not fight but Ukraine should be supported, with Europe bearing the cost. He reported that Colombian veterans of the Legion, including FARC and cartel members, are now using FPV drones against the Colombian government, and argued the war can only end through unified economic pressure on Russia, which he believes only Donald Trump can marshal.

Chapters

2:39
Introduction and gifts
Ryan introduces Lechner, referred by mutual friend Mike Durant, and they exchange gifts including a Sig P385 and Kennedy Castle whiskey.
7:34
Patreon question on foreign intervention
Lechner explains how his views on nation-building evolved in Iraq and criticizes the U.S. government's approach to foreign interventions.
10:26
Early life and path to the Ranger Regiment
Lechner describes growing up in upstate New York, attending The Citadel, his artillery assignment, and his last-minute selection to 3rd Ranger Battalion.
21:52
Joining Task Force Ranger
Lechner recounts being pulled into Bravo Company, training at Fort Bragg with Delta, and the raid template developed to hunt Mohamed Farrah Aidid.
34:54
Early operations in Mogadishu
Lechner describes the UN coalition, the mistaken raid on a UN-leased building, and the capture of Osman Atto.
46:33
Ranger–Delta friction
Lechner discusses cultural tensions between Rangers and Delta, defending Mike Steele and praising Norm Hooten.
56:46
The October 3 raid
Lechner describes the launch, gear choices, fast-roping, and the growing Somali resistance around the target building.
1:18:03
Black Hawk shootdown and move to the crash site
Lechner recounts Cliff Wolcott's helicopter being downed by an RPG, command-and-control problems, and the foot movement toward the crash site.
1:34:50
Gunship support and being wounded
Lechner describes calling AH-6 gunships in close, being shot in the leg, and nearly bleeding out in the casualty collection point.
1:49:36
Relief convoy and recovery
Lechner describes the UN convoy extraction, the losses, and his two-year recovery at Walter Reed.
2:00:29
Bosnia, Iraq, and Ramadi
Lechner covers war-crimes manhunts in Bosnia, leading an Iraqi battalion at Samarra, and the counterinsurgency campaign that turned around Ramadi.
2:43:23
CIA, Afghanistan, and isolationism
Lechner discusses his CIA task force work, Afghanistan counterinsurgency and rules of engagement, and his opposition to isolationism.
3:01:30
Ukraine, Iran, and drone warfare
Lechner gives his views on supporting Ukraine, the Iran war, cartel use of drone tactics learned in Ukraine, and how the war might end.
3:18:49
What's next
Lechner discusses family life, a proposal for his wife to teach in Lviv, and his continuing involvement in Eastern European rearmament.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

James Lechner
Lechner argues that the U.S. government, as distinct from the military, performs poorly at foreign interventions and foreign policy.
“The U.S. government is horrible at trying to do foreign interventions and foreign policy”
Listen from 9:31 · Counterinsurgency
James Lechner
Lechner says the task force wrongly concluded after the Atto raid that Somali fighters could not shoot down their helicopters.
“The other thing that we thought was they can't shoot us down. Our helicopters are moving too fast”
Listen from 44:07 · Battle of Mogadishu (1993)
James Lechner
Lechner recounts choosing extra ammunition over night vision and water for the raid, a choice he later regretted.
“I would love to have had night vision in the fight that was coming, but that's the decision that I had to make”
Listen from 1:04:26 · Battle of Mogadishu (1993)
James Lechner
Lechner says al-Qaeda fighters sent by Osama bin Laden taught Aidid's militia to modify RPGs for anti-aircraft use.
“taught him how to modify rocket-propelled grenades to be able to shoot up in the air”
Listen from 1:18:03 · Battle of Mogadishu (1993)
James Lechner
Lechner argues that a key mistake was the lack of a single ground commander, and that the Delta squadron commander should have been on the ground.
“In my opinion, the commander of the operation was the squadron commander from Delta. And I think he should have been on the ground commanding that”
Listen from 1:27:06 · Task Force Ranger
James Lechner
Lechner says five Black Hawks were brought down by enemy fire that day, three of which crashed in friendly territory.
“that day they actually brought down five Black Hawks. And that's another thing that most people don't know”
Listen from 1:30:31 · Battle of Mogadishu (1993)
James Lechner
Lechner says the mandated UHF radios were jammed by the downed helicopter's emergency beacon, forcing him to use a backup FM radio.
“It broadcasts on UHF and it Zed out and overrode and jammed our UHF radios”
Listen from 1:36:45 · Battle of Mogadishu (1993)
James Lechner
Lechner credits a medic's advice to seek treatment at Walter Reed rather than Fort Benning with saving his leg.
“that's probably the best advice I've ever gotten in the military”
Listen from 1:55:47 · Walter Reed Army Medical Center
James Lechner
Lechner says Ramadi accounted for about 30% of U.S. casualties in Iraq when his brigade was assigned there.
“Ramadi at that time accounted for 30% of all the casualties in Iraq, one city”
Listen from 2:23:55 · Battle of Ramadi (2006)
James Lechner
Lechner says partnering with Sheikh Sattar's tribe expanded Ramadi's police force dramatically within about six months.
“So we went from 200 cops to 5,000. We went from two stations to over 20 stations”
Listen from 2:36:10 · Battle of Ramadi (2006)
James Lechner
Lechner argues that focusing solely on destroying insurgent forces fails because the population keeps replenishing them.
“So if you focus on destroying the military forces that they put against you, you're never going to win. You're cutting grass”
Listen from 2:41:16 · Counterinsurgency
James Lechner
Lechner holds senior U.S. military leaders, more than political leaders, responsible for failures in Iraq and Afghanistan.
“I really hold the senior military leaders at fault for a lot of what went on in Iraq and Afghanistan later on”
Listen from 2:45:52 · War in Afghanistan (2001–2021)
James Lechner
Lechner argues the Afghanistan war was managed so badly that Vietnam looks well run by comparison.
“Vietnam compared to Afghanistan, it looks like it was run by a military genius like Clausewitz”
Listen from 2:55:13 · War in Afghanistan (2001–2021)
James Lechner
Lechner opposes isolationism, arguing that past U.S. retreats contributed to both World Wars.
“We've tried isolationism twice, and both of them, at least in part, resulted in the World Wars”
Listen from 2:59:55 · Isolationism
James Lechner
Lechner says American troops should not fight in Ukraine, though the U.S. should support Ukrainians who fight for themselves.
“I do not think US soldiers should be in there. I do not think American soldiers should shed their blood in there”
Listen from 3:01:52 · Russian invasion of Ukraine
James Lechner
Lechner argues that Europe, especially Germany, has relied on U.S. security for decades and should pay for the war.
“In my view, Europe has just grown fat off us for the last 50 to 75 years”
Listen from 3:02:28 · Russian invasion of Ukraine
James Lechner
Lechner supports the strategic goal of preventing a nuclear Iran but says the war has not been conducted effectively.
“I think the strategic objectives in Iran are correct. Having a nuclear power in Iran is unacceptable”
Listen from 3:05:54 · United States war with Iran
James Lechner
Lechner reports that Colombian International Legion veterans, including FARC and cartel members, are using drone skills learned in Ukraine against Colombia's government.
“were FARC guys, cartel guys. And they have now gone back to Colombia, and they're using those skills against the Colombian government”
Listen from 3:07:18 · Drone warfare
James Lechner
Lechner argues that ending the war requires unified economic pressure on Russia and that Trump is the only leader who can marshal it.
“It's going to take unified economic pressure from Europe and the United States. I firmly believe President Trump is the only person that can do it”
Listen from 3:12:26 · Russian invasion of Ukraine
Linked moment · 3:18:01Skip to 3:18:01 using a listen link in the info box.
James Lechner
Lechner says he tells Ukrainians they will not win militarily or regain their lost territory.
“You're not going to win militarily. You're not going to get your territory back”
Listen from 3:18:01 · Russian invasion of Ukraine

People

In the conversation

Shawn RyanFormer U.S. Navy SEAL and CIA contractor, host of the Shawn Ryan Show
James LechnerRetired U.S. Army lieutenant colonel and former Army Ranger, Battle of Mogadishu veteran, and author of With My Shield

Discussed

Mike DurantArmy Black Hawk pilot captured in Mogadishu; Lechner's pilot and longtime colleague
William F. GarrisonArmy general who commanded Task Force Ranger in Somalia
Mike SteeleCommander of Bravo Company, 3rd Ranger Battalion, in Mogadishu
Norm HootenDelta Force operator in the Battle of Mogadishu
Cliff WolcottPilot of Super Six-One, the first Black Hawk shot down in Mogadishu
Mohamed Farrah AididSomali warlord and leader of the Somali National Alliance
Osman Ali AttoFinancier and lieutenant of Aidid captured by Task Force Ranger
William G. BoykinDelta Force commander during the Mogadishu operation
H.R. McMasterArmy officer credited with counterinsurgency success in Tal Afar
Sean MacFarlandBrigade commander in Ramadi under whom Lechner served as deputy
Jocko WillinkNavy SEAL task unit commander in Ramadi
Chris KyleNavy SEAL sniper who fought in Ramadi
Abdul Sattar Abu RishaIraqi sheikh whose alliance with U.S. forces drove police recruitment in Ramadi
Stanley McChrystalU.S. Army general named by Ryan in connection with the Tillman Silver Star approval
Donald TrumpPresident of the United States whose conduct of the Iran war is the episode's main subject
Vladimir PutinPresident of Russia

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From the publisher

Lt. Col. James Lechner (Ret.) is a 27-year U.S. Army veteran and former Army Ranger whose deployments span Somalia, Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Ukraine. As a young Ranger officer, he fought with Task Force Ranger in the 1993 Battle of Mogadishu, where he was wounded in combat and awarded the Purple Heart. He later served as deputy brigade commander during the Battle of Ramadi and held assignments with SOCOM and the CIA. Most recently, Lechner traveled to Ukraine—first as a war correspondent and later training and advising Ukrainian forces, including service with the International Legion. Today, he works in the drone and counter-drone defense space, serves as an adjunct professor of American and Military History at Liberty University, and is the author of With My Shield. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: Privacy Isn't Paranoia. It's Protection. Download Glacier - https://theglacierapp.com Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get up to $3 million in coverage in as little as 10 minutes at https://ethos.com/SRS. Application times may vary. Rates may vary. Trustpilot rating as of 8/1/2026. Go to https://calderalab.com/SRS and use code SRS for 20% off your first order. Make the switch to Sundays for Dogs and get 50% off your first order at https://sundaysfordogs.com/SRS50 or use code SRS50 at checkout. Get started with Claude at https://claude.ai/srs Visit https://betterhelp.com/srs #ad James Lechner Links: Book: With My Shield - https://a.co/d/06aHhXRe Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/James.lechner Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/james.lechner.2025 X - https://x.com/Lechner_jim Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on October 9, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: History·Government·News Commentary