#693 - Consumer Advocate Lindsay Owens

Episode of This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von · November 3, 2026 · 1 h 55 min

Theo Von talks with consumer advocate Lindsay Owens about price gouging, dynamic and surveillance pricing, corporate data collection, AI shopping agents, and consumer protections.

Summary

Theo Von interviewed Lindsay Owens, head of the Washington think tank Groundwork Collaborative and author of "Gouged: The End of a Fair Price." Owens defined price gouging, dynamic pricing, and surveillance (personalized) pricing, and said she began investigating in 2021 when corporate earnings calls revealed companies were using inflation expectations to raise prices beyond their costs. The two discussed the Live Nation–Ticketmaster monopoly verdict, Walmart's rollout of electronic shelf labels, FIFA's use of dynamic pricing at the 2026 World Cup, and the Savannah Bananas' lottery-based ticketing as an alternative.

Owens described her organization's experiments exposing price variation: an Instacart study with Consumer Reports and More Perfect Union that found different shoppers charged up to 23% different prices for identical items, after which Instacart wound down its Eversight pricing tool, and a StubHub test showing fee differences of up to $60. She discussed DoorDash's withdrawn "agitation index" patent, Walmart patents involving biometrics, an "appeasement engine," and parking-lot suspension measurement, and Walmart's public letter to her denying such practices. She also cited Kroger's data business, the JetBlue funeral-fare tweet, Princeton Review's zip-code pricing, and a study showing AI shopping agents recommended pricier options to wealthier users.

Owens argued that federal lawmakers should ban surveillance pricing and that Congress should use subpoena power to investigate companies, while acknowledging lobbying makes this unlikely soon. She offered consumer tactics such as comparing prices across multiple phones, comparison shopping within a retailer's channels, using incognito mode or VPNs, and speaking out publicly. She promoted a 12-point Shopper's Bill of Rights and urged New York Governor Kathy Hochul to sign the One Fair Price Act banning surveillance pricing.

Chapters

0:00
Introduction and defining price gouging
Owens introduces Groundwork Collaborative and explains how corporate earnings calls during 2021 inflation led her to study price gouging.
4:34
Dynamic pricing, Ticketmaster and Walmart shelf labels
The discussion covers dynamic pricing in ticketing, Walmart's electronic shelf labels and patents, and the Live Nation–Ticketmaster monopoly verdict.
14:17
Lobbying and Congress
Owens describes how lobbyists weaken legislation, criticizes congressional gerontocracy and stock trading, and calls for investigations.
23:38
Instacart, StubHub and DoorDash experiments
Owens recounts her group's secret-shopper experiments and DoorDash's agitation index patent.
32:33
Coke thermometers, shrinkflation and the price tag
They discuss Coca-Cola's temperature-pricing idea, shrinkflation and skimpflation, and the Quaker and John Wanamaker origins of fixed prices.
40:18
Fair alternatives and the World Cup
Owens contrasts Aldi and the Savannah Bananas' fixed prices with FIFA's dynamic pricing at the 2026 World Cup.
47:23
Walmart surveillance patents and retail design
Owens details Walmart's biometric and parking-lot patents, store cameras, the Gruen effect, and Walmart's letter to her.
1:06:48
Surveillance pricing and data harvesting
They cover Expedia, JetBlue, loyalty programs, Kroger's data sales, airline pricing origins and McDonald's data dossiers.
1:14:11
Consumer tactics to fight back
Owens recommends running counter-experiments, broader comparison shopping, incognito mode, and public complaints.
1:28:57
AI shopping agents
Owens warns that AI assistants like Meta's Muse may steer users to pricier products, citing a large study of chatbot recommendations.
1:37:12
Targeting desperation and the Shopper's Bill of Rights
They discuss Princeton Review pricing and exploitation of insecurity, then Owens outlines her proposed consumer rights.
1:45:20
New York's One Fair Price Act and closing
Owens urges Governor Hochul to sign New York's surveillance pricing ban and calls on Congress to subpoena CEOs.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

Lindsay Owens
Owens says that during the 2021 inflation, companies told investors they would pass along rising costs and exploit inflation expectations to raise prices further.
“they were going to use the fact that we all expected prices to go up to pass along even more than their rising costs”
Listen from 3:03 · Price gouging
Lindsay Owens Prediction · due Dec 2026
Owens states that every Walmart in the country will have electronic shelf labels by the end of 2026.
“by the end of 2026, every Walmart in the country will have electronic shelf labels instead of paper stickers”
Listen from 6:45 · Walmart
Lindsay Owens
Owens argues electronic shelf labels are infrastructure that could allow dynamic pricing across the whole economy.
“electronic shelf labels are the digital infrastructure to price everything in the economy dynamically”
Listen from 7:41 · Dynamic pricing
Lindsay Owens
Owens says the best outcome of the monopoly case would be splitting Live Nation and Ticketmaster into competing entities.
“I mean, this would be the best outcome, right? If Live Nation and Ticketmaster had to split back up”
Listen from 13:18 · Live Nation Entertainment
Lindsay Owens
Owens recounts that corporate lobbyists delay, weaken or load bills with loopholes as they move through Congress.
“armies of lawyers and lobbyists on behalf of corporate America will descend on the Capitol like vultures”
Listen from 15:03 · Lobbying in the United States
Lindsay Owens
Owens reports her group's experiment found Instacart charged different people different prices for 75% of items at the same time.
“for 75% of the items in the cart, Instacart was charging different people different prices at the exact same time for the exact same item”
Listen from 25:23 · Instacart
Lindsay Owens
Owens says DoorDash's agitation index patent used factors including scrolling speed and phone battery, and was withdrawn after she discussed it in a congressional hearing.
“a couple days later, DoorDash quietly withdrew the patent”
Listen from 32:00 · DoorDash
Theo Von
Von says consumers are stressed by feeling taken advantage of everywhere and just want things to be somewhat fair.
“I walk into a place now and I just feel like I'm getting fucked and I just want to go sit in my car”
Listen from 37:00 · Price gouging
Lindsay Owens
Owens argues FIFA prioritized revenue over accessibility by using dynamic pricing for the first time at the U.S.-hosted World Cup.
“they could have prioritized making sure everyone had a shot. And instead they prioritized revenue”
Listen from 46:32 · 2026 FIFA World Cup
Lindsay Owens
Owens says Walmart has filed dozens of patents over the past decade for collecting biometric data such as heart rate, glucose levels and retinal scans.
“there are dozens of patents over the last decade that Walmart has filed for cataloging all sorts of information about how you look biometric information”
Listen from 47:25 · Walmart
Lindsay Owens
Owens called on Walmart to withdraw or relinquish its patents and allow a third-party audit of its pricing algorithms if it truly does not use them.
“bring in an auditor who tells us like, here's what the electronic shelf label algorithm is doing”
Listen from 1:02:34 · Walmart
Lindsay Owens
Owens warns AI shopping agents could become extraordinarily effective at upselling consumers.
“we could be unleashing what I view as the most sophisticated snake oil salesman the world has ever known”
Listen from 1:05:06 · Artificial intelligence
Linked moment · 1:10:20Skip to 1:10:20 using a listen link in the info box.
Lindsay Owens
Owens says 30% of Kroger's net operating income comes from its alternative profits business, which includes selling customer data.
“30% of Kroger's net operating income comes from what they call their alternative profits book of business”
Listen from 1:10:20 · Kroger
Lindsay Owens
Owens argues that airlines originated and exported the worst pricing practices, including dynamic pricing and unbundling.
“all of the tricks that companies use originated in the airlines”
Listen from 1:12:52 · Dynamic pricing
Lindsay Owens
Owens recommends consumers run their own experiments, such as having friends all check Uber prices at once and booking the cheapest.
“turn the experiment back around on these companies. They figure out how much they can charge you by running experiments on you. Run experiments on them”
Listen from 1:15:46 · Surveillance pricing
Lindsay Owens
Owens argues corporate America has built a surveillance state rivaling what governments could build.
“corporate America is now built a kind of surveillance state that rivals what any government could build”
Listen from 1:22:52 · Surveillance pricing
Lindsay Owens
Owens argues AI agents marketed as personal assistants actually work for their platforms or advertisers rather than the user.
“they're calling themselves agents and they're saying they're your assistant, but actually they don't work for you, right?”
Listen from 1:36:19 · Artificial intelligence
Lindsay Owens
Owens argues income and willingness to pay differ, so surveillance pricing exploits desperation rather than only charging the rich more.
“income and willingness to pay are not the same thing, right? Like that's the key here”
Listen from 1:39:37 · Surveillance pricing
Lindsay Owens
Owens says her organization estimates the 'annoyance economy' costs Americans $165 billion a year in lost time and money.
“the annoyance economy, which is things like fighting chatbots for refunds, is costing Americans $165 billion every single year”
Listen from 1:43:29 · Surveillance pricing
Lindsay Owens
Owens says New York's surveillance pricing ban has passed the legislature and Governor Hochul has until year's end to sign it, and predicts other states would follow.
“It would be a total ban on surveillance pricing in the entire state of New York. So it would be a huge move forward for consumers”
Listen from 1:46:52 · One Fair Price Act
Lindsay Owens
Owens urges Congress to use subpoena power to make CEOs of Walmart, DoorDash and Uber explain their pricing algorithms.
“put the CEO of Walmart in the hot seat and said, tell me what's going on with Sparky”
Listen from 1:49:28 · Lobbying in the United States

People

In the conversation

Theo VonAmerican stand-up comedian and host of the podcast This Past Weekend
Lindsay OwensConsumer protection expert, head of the Groundwork Collaborative think tank, and author of "Gouged"

Discussed

Josh HawleyRepublican U.S. senator from Missouri
Doug IvesterFormer Coca-Cola CEO who floated temperature-sensitive vending machine pricing
John WanamakerPhiladelphia merchant credited with introducing the price tag
Victor GruenAustrian-born architect of shopping malls, namesake of the Gruen effect
Dan BartlettWalmart executive and former Bush press secretary who wrote a letter to Owens
Greg ForanKroger CEO since February 2026, formerly of Walmart U.S. and Air New Zealand
Kathy HochulGovernor of New York weighing the One Fair Price Act
Mark ZuckerbergCo-founder of Facebook
Mitch McConnellRepublican U.S. senator from Kentucky

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From the publisher

Lindsay Owens, Ph.D is a consumer protection expert known for her investigations into price gouging and manipulation. Her new book “Gouged: The End of a Fair Price- and What That Means for Your Wallet” is available now. Lindsay joins Theo to talk about the shocking technology companies are using to get you to pay more, how the rise of AI is creating a corporate surveillance state, and real ways the consumer can fight back. Lindsay Owens: https://www.instagram.com/lindsayowensphd/ ------------------------------------------------- Tour Dates! https://theovon.com/tour New Merch: https://www.theovonstore.com ------------------------------------------------- Sponsored By: Celsius: Go to the Celsius Amazon store to check out all of their flavors. #CELSIUSBrandPartner @CelsiusOfficial https://amzn.to/3HbAtPJ Shopify: Take control of your income. Start your free trial at http://shopify.com/theo Chime: Join the millions who are already banking for free and sign up now at http://Chime.com/THEO Modiphy: Get 50% off the last website you’ll ever need at https://modiphy.com/THEO ------------------------------------------------- Music: “Shine” by Bishop Gunn Bishop Gunn - Shine ------------------------------------------------ Submit your funny videos, TikToks, questions and topics you'd like to hear on the podcast to: tpwproducer@gmail.com Hit the Hotline: 985-664-9503 Video Hotline for Theo Upload here: https://www.theovon.com/fan-upload Mail stuff to: ATTN: TPW PO BOX 40137 Nashville TN 37204 ------------------------------------------------ Find Theo: Website: https://theovon.com Instagram: https://instagram.com/theovon Facebook: https://facebook.com/theovon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thispastweekend X: https://twitter.com/theovon YouTube: https://youtube.com/theovon Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheoVonClips Shorts Channel: https://bit.ly/3ClUj8z ------------------------------------------------ Producer: Zach https://www.instagram.com/zachdpower…

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on November 8, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Business·Technology·Politics