Part Two: The Alien Invasion Already Happened. JFK, The CIA & Who’s Really Controlling History | Peter Levenda

Episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown · October 28, 2026 · 48 min

Author Peter Levenda tells Mayim Bialik and Jonathan Cohen about MKUltra, Nazi occultism, UFOs as consciousness manipulation, and his own Men in Black encounters.

Summary

In the second part of a two-part conversation, Mayim Bialik and Jonathan Cohen spoke with author Peter Levenda about government experimentation on human consciousness. Levenda described CIA programs including Bluebird, Artichoke, and MKUltra, the Montreal experiments of Dr. Ewen Cameron, and the death of Frank Olson, arguing that the CIA approached consciousness in a reckless way that mystical traditions had long warned against. Bialik raised Cameron's assessment of Rudolf Hess, and Levenda described Hess as an occultist and believer in astrology.

Levenda discussed Soviet and Chinese research into the paranormal, the career of Chinese rocket scientist Qian Xuesen, Operation Paperclip, and the Cold War binary of anti-communism that allowed cooperation with former Nazis. Bialik argued that consciousness expansion through psychedelics runs counter to war-making and that politicized religion distorts genuine spiritual experience. Levenda argued that the alien invasion had already happened, in the sense that the UFO phenomenon manipulates human consciousness, and recommended strengthening oneself psychologically and spiritually, citing Israel Regardie's advice to undergo therapy before occult study.

Levenda recounted a Men in Black encounter in Rhode Island around 1990 involving a black Cadillac and two small women asking about "DeVilbiss," a name he linked to a Wernher von Braun associate, and a later sighting of one of the women at Changi Airport in Singapore. He also described joining, as a teenager, a Bronx church connected to Jim Garrison's investigation of the Kennedy assassination. In a closing debrief, Bialik and Cohen discussed Lincoln–Kennedy coincidences, with Bialik raising skeptical counterpoints, and Cohen noted the suggestibility created by technology and algorithms.

Chapters

  1. 0:04

    Introduction to part two

    Bialik and Cohen introduce the second part of their conversation with Peter Levenda.

  2. 1:13

    MKUltra and CIA mind experiments

    Levenda describes Bluebird, MKUltra, Ewen Cameron's Montreal experiments, and the death of Frank Olson.

  3. 9:24

    Ewen Cameron and Rudolf Hess

    Bialik and Levenda discuss Cameron's assessment of Hess and Hess's occult beliefs.

  4. 12:59

    Psychological operations and consciousness expansion

    Levenda describes the Phoenix program and Bialik links psychedelics and anti-war sentiment.

  5. 17:36

    Soviet and Chinese paranormal research

    Levenda explains Soviet paranormal studies and the story of Chinese rocket scientist Qian Xuesen.

  6. 21:58

    Religion, politics, and Operation Paperclip

    Bialik discusses politicized religion and Levenda explains the Cold War anti-communist binary that welcomed Nazi scientists.

  7. 26:01

    The alien invasion already happened

    Levenda argues the UFO phenomenon manipulates consciousness and recommends inner strengthening.

  8. 33:37

    Men in Black encounters

    Levenda recounts encounters in Rhode Island and Singapore and his youthful link to a church tied to the Garrison investigation.

  9. 42:16

    Hosts' debrief

    Bialik and Cohen discuss Lincoln–Kennedy coincidences, skepticism, brain suggestibility, and technology.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

  • Peter Levenda

    Levenda argues the CIA explored consciousness recklessly on unwitting subjects, unlike mystical traditions that prepared initiates gradually.

    “What CIA did was just throw everything at it, right? Let's just rip apart the consciousness of individual people, unsuspecting, by the way”

    Listen from 3:12 · Project MKUltra

  • Peter Levenda

    Levenda says Sidney Gottlieb destroyed MKUltra documents once Congress sought an investigation, though financial records survived.

    “Sidney Gottlieb, who was running it, right, was burying the documents and shredding them when they realized Congress wanted to do an investigation”

    Listen from 4:48 · Project MKUltra

  • Peter Levenda

    Levenda says Ewen Cameron's CIA-funded Montreal clinic erased patients' memories and implanted false ones.

    “who were going to a psychiatrist for regular help, and they were having memories erased. They were having false memories implanted”

    Listen from 5:38 · Montreal experiments

  • Peter Levenda

    Levenda argues that Frank Olson did not accidentally fall from the hotel window.

    “If you've been to that room and I've seen it, there's no way you fell out of that window”

    Listen from 7:15 · Project MKUltra

  • Linked moment · 10:47Skip to 10:47 using a listen link in the info box.

    Peter Levenda

    Levenda says Rudolf Hess believed in astrology, telepathy, and occultism and flew to Scotland on astrological advice.

    “Hess was a big believer in telepathy and occultism. He grew up with that”

    Listen from 10:47 · Nazi occultism

  • Mayim Bialik

    Bialik argues that people whose consciousness is opened to love and community are less likely to wage war.

    “they will be less likely to put on a uniform and go across the world to wage war”

    Listen from 15:17 · Consciousness

  • Peter Levenda

    Levenda says the postwar U.S. government accepted Nazi scientists because communism was seen as the main enemy.

    “We could deal with the Nazis. We could use the information they had. We can use everything. We can use their scientists”

    Listen from 25:05 · Operation Paperclip

  • Peter Levenda

    Levenda argues that an alien invasion already occurred long ago, in the form of consciousness manipulation.

    “My response to that has been it's already happened. It has happened. It's happened thousands of years ago”

    Listen from 27:11 · Unidentified flying objects and government disclosure

  • Peter Levenda

    Levenda argues the phenomenon's varied appearances indicate manipulation.

    “This phenomenon has all different kinds of faces on it. They're not stuck to one specific type of manifestation. That right away indicates manipulation, right?”

    Listen from 27:11 · Unidentified flying objects and government disclosure

  • Peter Levenda

    Levenda recommends strengthening oneself psychologically, endorsing Israel Regardie's advice to undergo therapy before occult study.

    “Spend a year or two in therapy first. But what he meant was, you don't know what you're dealing with”

    Listen from 29:34 · Consciousness

  • Peter Levenda

    Levenda advises skepticism toward conspiracy theories while acknowledging real conspiracies exist.

    “not fall for every story we hear, not fall for every conspiracy theory that comes down the pike, but be aware that there are conspiracies”

    Listen from 30:48 · Conspiracy theories in the United States

  • Peter Levenda

    Levenda believes the women in his Men in Black encounter plucked the name DeVilbiss from his mind.

    “They plucked that name, I think, out of my brain somehow. Because I looked for DeVilbiss, there was no DeVilbiss anywhere in Rhode Island”

    Listen from 37:56 · Men in Black

  • Peter Levenda

    Levenda says he joined, at 17 or 18, a Bronx church that Jim Garrison linked to an intelligence front in the Kennedy investigation.

    “it happens to be the church that was involved in the Kennedy assassination with Jim Garrison. And I joined that church in 1968”

    Listen from 39:39 · Assassination of John F. Kennedy

  • Mayim Bialik

    Bialik argues conspiracy theorists sometimes selectively pick cases that fit their framework.

    “I think that's where conspiracy theorists, right, sometimes seem to kind of like pick and choose selectively”

    Listen from 45:00 · Conspiracy theories in the United States

  • Jonathan Cohen

    Cohen argues digital consumption and algorithms make people more suggestible than they realize.

    “The level of susceptibility is actually much higher than we think”

    Listen from 48:34 · Social media algorithms

People

In the conversation

  • Mayim BialikActress, neuroscientist and host of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown
  • Jonathan CohenExecutive producer and co-host of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, writer and energy worker
  • Peter LevendaAmerican author of the Sinister Forces trilogy and co-author of the Sekret Machines nonfiction trilogy

Discussed

  • Ewen CameronPsychiatrist whose CIA-funded depatterning experiments used repeated ECT
  • Frank OlsonAmerican scientist dosed with LSD by the CIA who died after falling from a hotel window
  • Sidney GottliebCIA chemist who ran MKUltra
  • Richard HelmsFormer CIA director
  • Rudolf HessDeputy Führer of Nazi Germany who flew to Scotland in 1941
  • Qian XuesenChinese rocket scientist who founded China's space program
  • Israel RegardieOccultist and psychotherapist
  • Wernher von BraunGerman-American rocket engineer whose work transformed Huntsville, Alabama
  • Jim GarrisonNew Orleans district attorney who investigated the Kennedy assassination
  • Timothy LearyAmerican psychologist and psychedelic advocate
  • Tom DeLongeMusician and co-founder of To The Stars Academy of Arts and Science
  • John F. KennedyU.S. politician who campaigned at and stayed in the Blennerhassett Hotel in 1960
  • Abraham LincolnU.S. president cited for suspending habeas corpus during the Civil War

Topics

More from Mayim Bialik's Breakdown

From the publisher

What if the UFO phenomenon isn’t simply being investigated by governments, but is being used to investigate us? And what if the forces behind it are connected to consciousness, intelligence agencies, occultism, and nonhuman intelligence? In this episode of Mayim Bialik’s Breakdown, Peter Levenda, author of the Sinister Forces trilogy and co-author with Blink-182’s Tom DeLonge of the nonfiction Sekret Machines trilogy ( Gods, Man, and War ), goes deep down the rabbit hole of UFOs, UAP, nonhuman intelligence (NHI), government secrecy, consciousness, occultism, intelligence operations, and the mysterious “Men in Black.” We begin with the JFK assassination and explore its possible connections to UFOs, NHI, consciousness, and sinister forces operating behind the scenes. Levenda examines why he believes Kennedy’s assassination may have affected the American psyche more deeply than we realize, as well as the intriguing parallels between the Lincoln and Kennedy assassinations. Could the U.S. government have been influenced by negative nonhuman intelligence? Was there ever a secret deal between the government and aliens? And is the growing push for UFO/UAP/NHI disclosure revealing the truth, or concealing something more sinister? Levenda discusses why he finds it frustrating that NHI is often reduced to traditional “angels and demons” narratives, and why understanding the phenomenon may require perspectives from religious scholars, linguists, anthropologists, psychiatrists, and other experts, not just the technological and military worlds. We examine the infamous Roswell UAP crash and its possible connection to Nazi technology, the relationship between occultism, religion, mythology, and power, and the disturbing ties between occult ideas and Nazi Germany. We also explore Levenda’s encounters with the “Men in Black,” including why he believes certain entities may not want him to have the information he possesses. He shares his own riveting UAP sighting and considers the str…

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on November 1, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Society & Culture·History·Spirituality