$100M hedge fund manager: Do not make the mistake of dying rich
Episode of My First Million · November 2, 2026 · 1 h 23 min
Shaan Puri and Sam Parr talk with trader and Die With Zero author Bill Perkins about energy trading, time bucketing, ego, health, and his $15 million Ernie Barnes painting.
Summary
Bill Perkins described how he made his fortune trading natural gas derivatives, beginning as a clerk on the New York Mercantile Exchange floor and becoming a trader in Houston after deregulation, mostly profiting by being short natural gas. He framed traders as 'glorified insurance agents,' argued that the key to trading is to stay in the game, and said that in hindsight he should have concentrated more risk when young and gone into equities.
The conversation turned to the ideas in his book Die With Zero. Perkins argued that net worth should peak at a date rather than a number because the body is a decaying asset, that he fears wasting his life more than losing money, and that most people avoid risks because of ego rather than money. He explained 'time buckets' as an alternative to bucket lists, discussed cultural programming and maximum accountability, and admitted his health had slipped since marrying and having a baby, which he said was 'screwing over future Bill.' Sam Parr described using the book's ideas to encourage his in-laws to spend their wealth on shared family experiences.
Perkins recounted buying Ernie Barnes's The Sugar Shack at Sotheby's for $15 million, arguing that historical bias in the art world had created an arbitrage in African-American art and that collectors signal what is worth preserving. The hosts also discussed Sylvester Stallone's sale of a Monet. Perkins closed by explaining why he avoids fame, which he said shrinks one's world, and mentioned a possible book collaboration with Tim Urban.
Chapters
- 0:21
From trading floor clerk to energy trader
Perkins explained how he made his money trading natural gas derivatives and why traders resemble insurance agents.
- 5:30
Investor edges and staying in the game
The group discussed temperament and information edges, large swings in Perkins's fund, trader intensity, and why he would now choose equities.
- 13:02
Net worth peak as a date
Perkins described how he moved from wanting to be a millionaire by 30 to viewing net worth peak as a date tied to a decaying body.
- 18:36
Fear of a wasted life and crushing ego
After Puri read a passage from Die With Zero, Perkins argued that ego, not money, keeps people from taking chances.
- 25:39
Cultural programming and maximum accountability
Perkins discussed rewriting inherited programming and responses, and the hosts linked this to locus of control and accountability exercises.
- 31:36
Balance, family and time buckets
Perkins described life balance as a pendulum and explained time buckets as an alternative to bucket lists, while Puri described his annual planning days.
- 38:53
Health regret and future Bill
Perkins admitted his fitness had declined and explained how VO2 max limits his desired late-life activities.
- 42:50
Die With Zero: title and reader stories
Perkins explained the book's title and described readers changing inheritance plans, retirement dates and time allocation.
- 53:16
Work, spending, farming and offices
Perkins described his startups and hedge fund, his spending on yachts and private travel, his farming ambitions, and views on offices and young workers.
- 1:02:15
Buying The Sugar Shack
Perkins told the story of winning Ernie Barnes's The Sugar Shack at a Sotheby's auction for $15 million and his arbitrage thesis.
- 1:10:44
Stallone, multifaceted people and the Barnes market
Parr told the story of Sylvester Stallone's Monet sale and Perkins discussed how his purchase reset the Barnes market.
- 1:15:27
Avoiding fame and a possible next book
Perkins explained why fame shrinks one's world and mentioned a potential book with Tim Urban on purpose and relationships.
Key points
What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.
- Bill Perkins
Perkins said most of his trading profit came from being short natural gas as winter risk premiums bled out.
“most of the money I made was from being short natural gas over time”
- Bill Perkins
Perkins said he should have concentrated more of his money in his fund when young because maximizing risk at that age makes sense.
“I was very young and maximizing risk at that age is probably the way to go”
- Bill Perkins
Perkins argued that traders who avoid blowing up in markets with an edge will eventually earn outsized returns.
“if you are able to not completely blow up and get knocked out of the game, you will eventually have outsized returns”
- Bill Perkins
Perkins said that, knowing what he knows now, he would have gone into equities rather than commodities because the market is larger.
“I would have went into equities. It's just much bigger”
- Bill Perkins
Perkins argued that net worth should peak at a particular age rather than at a target number because the body declines.
“your net worth peak is actually a date, not a number”
- Bill Perkins
Perkins said his motivation for the book was a fear of wasting his life, not of losing money.
“I fear wasting my life. The money is just a tool”
- Bill Perkins
Perkins argued that people avoid starting businesses or chasing opportunities because of ego and fear of status loss rather than financial risk.
“most people who don't start a business or don't go chase an opportunity, et cetera, don't do it because of ego”
- Sam Parr
Parr said an internal locus of control is one of the few common traits he has observed among successful guests.
“there's this like internal locus control amongst winners, which is like basically I can only control me, how I feel, how I react to the situation”
- Shaan Puri
Puri suggested many people would benefit from rewriting one story of their life from a stance of full ownership.
“I think a lot of people would benefit if they just rewrote one story in their life From the point of view of maximum accountability”
- Bill Perkins
Perkins compared life to Tetris, arguing experiences must be done in the right life period to maximize fulfillment.
“life is like Tetris. You kind of have to get the order right in order to get the high score and fulfillment”
- Shaan Puri
Puri said he now sets aside three days a year to plan how he wants to spend the rest of the year.
“it just seemed crazy to me that I wasn't spending 1% of my year just trying to think through how to spend the other 99%”
- Bill Perkins
Perkins said his declining fitness means he could not do most of the activities he wants in his last decade at his current trajectory.
“the things I want to do in my last decade of life, like 80% of them I cannot do at this current trajectory”
Linked moment · 42:50Skip to 42:50 using a listen link in the info box.
Sam ParrParr said large vacation homes help wealthy families spend more time together, based on his in-laws' experience after he applied the book's ideas.
“if you get a place that's big enough for everyone to be really comfortable, you 100% spend more time with your family”
- Bill Perkins
Perkins said many older readers changed their estate planning after realizing inheritances should be given while recipients can use them.
“Like, why am I waiting to die to give somebody their inheritance? Like an inheritance shouldn't be a bequest”
- Sam Parr
Parr said his company keeps an office partly because working from home is not enjoyable for young employees.
“It was it's not particularly fun, I think, for a 22 year old to be working from home”
- Bill Perkins
Perkins said he supports helping younger people connect in person because devices and social media disconnect them.
“I think we need to help. The younger generation connect with other humans because there's so many devices that are actually disconnecting them”
- Bill Perkins
Perkins said he flew to Sotheby's for his first live auction to buy The Sugar Shack rather than risk bidding by telephone.
“I'm going to fly. It was the first live auction I've ever been to and I flew to Sotheby's and I stole that painting”
- Bill Perkins
Perkins argued that collectors determine what art future generations see by signaling what is worth preserving.
“the role of the collector is to signal to future generations what is worth preserving”
- Bill Perkins
Perkins said observing famous friends convinced him that fame robs people of freedom and confines them.
“Fame shrinks your world and you go into a bubble. You can't walk around”
- Bill Perkins
Perkins said he believes the purpose of life is happiness and that people's biology provides design cues to their purpose.
“I think the purpose of life is to be happy and purpose comes in design”
People
In the conversation
- Shaan PuriEntrepreneur and investor, co-host of My First Million, former Twitch executive
- Sam ParrEntrepreneur, founder of The Hustle and Hampton, co-host of My First Million
- Bill PerkinsAmerican hedge fund manager and author of Die With Zero
Discussed
- Ernie BarnesAmerican painter and former professional football player who created The Sugar Shack
- Marvin GayeAmerican singer whose album used a version of The Sugar Shack as cover art
- Eddie MurphyAmerican comedian and actor Druski names as having set the bar for comedy careers
- Sylvester StalloneAmerican actor, screenwriter and director known for the Rocky and Rambo franchises; author of the memoir The Steps
- Daniel NegreanuProfessional poker player who hosts the 25K fantasy draft
- Tim UrbanWriter behind the blog Wait But Why, author of the essay 'The Tail End'
- Howard MarksAmerican investor cited as a past type of MFM guest
- Ray DalioAmerican hedge fund investor and founder of Bridgewater Associates
- John ArnoldArt collector friend who alerted Perkins to the Sugar Shack auction
- Dan BilzerianSocial media personality who announced a congressional run against Randy Fine
- Michael PhelpsAmerican Olympic swimmer who appeared in a Shark Week special
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From the publisher
Free guide: how to build wealth (and use it well): https://clickhubspot.com/fjvx Episode 878: Shaan Puri ( https://x.com/ShaanVP ) and Sam Parr ( https://x.com/theSamParr ) talk to Bill Perkins ( https://x.com/bp22 ) about how to die with zero and never have a regret about it. — Show Notes: (0:00) Intro (0:55) How Bill made his money (1:55) Price go up or price go down? (3:45) Maximize risk when young (5:15) The 3 edges of the greatest investors (9:15) The name of the game is to stay in the game (10:25) A decade of intensity (12:20) No parties at 85 (13:00) Define your net worth peak (18:15) Shaan reads an email to Bill (19:25) The fear of a wasted life (20:00) Crush your ego (25:45) Set your cookie cutter life on fire (26:10) Reprogramming your brain (30:00) Rewrite for maximum accountability (32:55) Seasons of balance (34:25) Time buckets vs. bucket list (37:15) Plan your year (38:30) What Bill regrets right now (41:05) Don't fuck your future self (42:15) Die With Zero (52:35) Playing the money game for fun (54:05) What Bill spends his money on (1:00:35) Spending $15M on a painting (1:09:05) The art of Sylvester Stallone (1:17:05) Bill's follow-up book — Links: • Die With Zero - https://diewithzerobook.com/ — Check Out Sam's Stuff: • Hampton (joinhampton.com): My community for founders. Average member does $25m/year. Many of the guests are members. Get after it...apply: http://joinhampton.com/mfm — Check Out Shaan's Stuff: • Shaan's weekly email - https://www.shaanpuri.com • Visit https://www.somewhere.com/mfm to hire worldwide talent like Shaan and get $500 off for being an MFM listener. Hire developers, assistants, marketing pros, sales teams and more for 80% less than US equivalents. • Mercury - Shaan uses Mercury across all of his companies. you can too: http://mercury.com/ Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group, Column, N.A., Members FDIC • I run all my newsletters on Beehiiv and you should…
Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on November 15, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.