The Search for an Exciting Moderate

Episode of Pod Save America · July 26, 2026 · 1 h 15 min

Jon Favreau and Matt Yglesias debate how a moderate, center-left Democrat could gain attention, win the 2028 presidential primary, and appeal to swing voters.

Summary

Jon Favreau interviewed Slow Boring writer Matt Yglesias about his essay on how the center left could come back in 2028, written partly in response to questions posed by Nate Silver. Yglesias argued that parties are defined by their presidential campaigns and that the center left needs a primary candidate who articulates a critique of the Clinton–Biden–Harris–Schumer status quo, which he said had drifted left since Obama's second term on education reform, immigration, crime, and the party's relationship with business.

Favreau pressed on whether issue positions, rather than perceptions of elitism, weakness, or charisma, explain Democratic losses, citing New York Times polling showing swing-state Senate candidates viewed as less left than the party. Yglesias said issues, communication, and empathy come together, pointing to Roy Cooper, Graham Platner's since-ended Maine Senate campaign, and Obama's handling of affirmative action. He identified immigration and border security, transgender issues in sex-segregated spaces, and public-sector reform as areas where Democrats should reassure voters, while saying he personally is quite left on immigration. Favreau argued that nuanced positions such as reforming rather than simply abolishing ICE are hard to communicate.

The two discussed whether candidates should release detailed policy plans, with Yglesias regretting his own past demands for them, and the problem that moderate Democrats are often electorally viable but poor at commanding attention. Yglesias criticized swing-district moderates for avoiding national media, praised Bernie Sanders for promoting allies, and urged moderates to articulate daring positions. On 2028, he suggested Rahm Emanuel should step back to mentor others, expressed enthusiasm for younger figures like Josh Turek and James Talarico, and listed swing-state officials including Mark Kelly, Ruben Gallego, Gretchen Whitmer, and Josh Shapiro, urging them to tell national audiences about the heterodox positions that won them local races.

Chapters

1:34
Why a presidential campaign
Yglesias explains why he believes the center left's comeback depends on a 2028 presidential primary campaign that redefines the party.
3:41
Critique of the Democratic status quo
Yglesias describes the party's leftward drift on education, immigration, crime, and business since Obama's second term.
6:57
Issues versus other factors
Favreau asks whether losses stem from issue positions or perceptions of corruption and weakness, and Yglesias argues issues matter to swing voters.
14:27
Swing-state Senate candidates and vibes
The two discuss polling on Democratic Senate candidates, Roy Cooper, and Graham Platner's charisma-driven campaign.
25:34
Empathy and explaining positions
They discuss how politicians like Obama bridged divides through empathy and how Harris struggled, including with Liz Cheney.
29:55
Which moderate stances to emphasize
Yglesias names immigration, transgender issues, and public-sector reform as areas where Democrats should reassure voters.
37:11
Nuance, ICE, and interest groups
Favreau raises the difficulty of explaining nuanced ICE positions, and Yglesias points to interest-group pressure and cautious 'overdog' nominees.
41:27
Attention and disciplined moderation
They discuss why left-wing politicians command attention and how a center-left candidate could do so.
45:48
The case against detailed policy plans
Yglesias argues campaigns overemphasize detailed plans, and they revisit Obama's 2008 health plan, the 2020 Medicare for All debates, and Biden's win.
52:10
Beshear, Shapiro, and breaking through
They weigh whether disciplined moderates like Andy Beshear and Josh Shapiro can tell a compelling story in a crowded primary.
58:59
Media focus and moderates who won't try
Yglesias criticizes media fixation on New York and moderates who avoid national attention, praising Bernie Sanders for promoting allies.
1:08:03
Rahm Emanuel and the 2028 field
Yglesias urges Rahm Emanuel to mentor others and surveys swing-state officials who could carry a heterodox moderate message.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

Matt Yglesias
Yglesias argues that the 2028 nominee will effectively define what the Democratic Party stands for.
“Somebody is going to win it. That person will be the leader. What Democrats stand for is going to be, you know, largely whatever it is that person stands for”
Listen from 3:21 · 2028 Democratic Party presidential primaries
Linked moment · 3:41Skip to 3:41 using a listen link in the info box.
Matt Yglesias
Yglesias contends the Democratic Party moved significantly left under establishment stewardship since Obama's second term.
“there's been some pretty dramatic leftward moves in the Democratic Party since Barack Obama's second term”
Listen from 4:18 · Centrism in the Democratic Party
Matt Yglesias
Yglesias says polls showed Graham Platner on track to beat Susan Collins before scandals ended his campaign, though via a standard coalition.
“he was going to beat Susan Collins until scandals took him down”
Listen from 19:10 · 2026 United States Senate election in Maine
Matt Yglesias
Yglesias argues that intra-party fights between establishment and progressives mostly concern issues where swing voters do not disagree with Democrats.
“the things that the establishment and the kind of more progressive people have been arguing about are actually mostly not the issues that it seems like swing voters disagree with Democrats about”
Listen from 23:03 · Centrism in the Democratic Party
Matt Yglesias
Yglesias argues Democrats should acknowledge that most Americans want biological sex to govern certain sex-segregated spaces.
“there is a set of sex segregated spaces where most Americans want, you know, biology is defined by chromosomes to be the controlling factor there”
Listen from 30:50 · Transgender athletes in women's sports
Matt Yglesias
Yglesias says he is personally left on immigration but that polling shows Democrats must reassure voters on asylum and borders.
“Now, this is not where like I am at personally. I'm like quite left on immigration, but I can see the numbers here”
Listen from 31:20 · Illegal immigration to the United States
Jon Favreau
Favreau says that as a Democratic president he would fire most ICE staff while still keeping immigration enforcement.
“i would fire most of the people in ice because i think they've hired a bunch of unqualified psychopaths”
Listen from 37:11 · U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement
Matt Yglesias
Yglesias argues recent Democratic nominees were cautious establishment 'overdogs' rather than risk-taking underdogs like Obama and Trump.
“The last three times, Democrats have kind of had this sort of overdog nominee who was handed down by the weight of the past”
Listen from 38:44 · 2028 Democratic Party presidential primaries
Matt Yglesias
Yglesias expresses regret for having been among journalists who demanded detailed policy plans from candidates.
“I was part of a wave of young at the time journalists who were really like, we got to see plans from these presidential candidates”
Listen from 46:38 · Campaign policy plans
Matt Yglesias
Yglesias argues Biden's 2020 primary win showed that a focus on beating Trump resonated with Democratic voters.
“his message of like, I'm just going to beat Donald Trump was like pretty compelling actually to Democratic primary voters”
Listen from 50:59 · 2028 Democratic Party presidential primaries
Jon Favreau
Favreau argues the party has electorally viable center-left figures who struggle to get attention, while attention-grabbing progressives may not win swing states.
“I feel like we have a lot of center left candidates who may be electorally viable, but are not very good at getting attention”
Listen from 54:15 · Centrism in the Democratic Party
Matt Yglesias
Yglesias says Josh Shapiro's heartfelt moderation often centers on Israel, where public opinion is moving against him.
“You can't win by being moderate on something where everything's going the other way”
Listen from 55:44 · 2028 Democratic Party presidential primaries
Matt Yglesias
Yglesias criticizes moderate Democrats for avoiding national attention and then complaining that AOC and Mamdani dominate.
“a huge frustration that I have with a lot of the more moderate Democrats is that they don't even want to try a lot of the time”
Listen from 1:03:39 · Centrism in the Democratic Party
Jon Favreau
Favreau argues Harris's campaign erred by not addressing the transgender-care attack ad and that ducking such issues fails at the presidential level.
“ducking these issues or just trying to hide from them is it is not a an effective strategy on a presidential campaign level”
Listen from 1:08:44 · 2024 United States presidential election
Matt Yglesias
Yglesias says Rahm Emanuel's candidacy would relitigate old controversies and he should instead mentor newer politicians.
“I would love for Rahm to take a step back and to mentor somebody else”
Listen from 1:10:01 · 2028 Democratic Party presidential primaries
Matt Yglesias
Yglesias expresses enthusiasm for younger, media-savvy non-establishment moderates such as Josh Turek and James Talarico.
“this is part of why i'm excited about josh turek and james talarico it's like these are younger politicians”
Listen from 1:10:08 · 2026 United States midterm elections
Matt Yglesias
Yglesias argues swing-state winners like Andy Beshear undersell the heterodoxy, such as coal positions, that won them votes.
“Andy Beshear rejected a Sierra Club endorsement and he got the United Mine Workers who have stopped endorsing Democrats in national politics to endorse him”
Listen from 1:11:19 · Centrism in the Democratic Party

People

In the conversation

Jon FavreauCo-host of Pod Save America and former speechwriter for President Barack Obama
Matt YglesiasAmerican political writer, author of the Slow Boring newsletter

Discussed

Nate SilverElections analyst whose polling model and averages are cited
Barack ObamaFormer president referenced in comparing 2010 midterm conditions
Kamala HarrisFormer Vice President mentioned as a potential California endorser
Joe BidenFormer president whose economic approval is compared to Trump's
Graham PlatnerPresumptive Democratic nominee for Senate in Maine
Roy CooperFormer North Carolina governor running for Senate
Sherrod BrownDemocratic Senate candidate in Ohio and former senator
Josh TurekIowa state legislator, Paralympic gold medalist in wheelchair basketball, and Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate in Iowa
James TalaricoDemocratic Senate nominee in Texas
Andy BeshearGovernor of Kentucky
Josh ShapiroGovernor of Pennsylvania whose residence was set on fire in an arson attack
Rahm EmanuelDemocratic politician and possible presidential candidate
Ruben GallegoDemocratic U.S. Senator from Arizona
Zohran MamdaniNew York Democratic politician described by Pape as a left-wing parallel to Trump's rapid rise
Alexandria Ocasio-CortezCongresswoman ranked sixth by Halperin among 2028 Democrats
Bernie SandersU.S. Senator from Vermont who discussed mail-in ballots before the 2020 election
Liz CheneyFormer Republican congresswoman who campaigned with Harris
Rob SandIowa state auditor running for governor as a Democrat
Haley StevensU.S. Representative running for Senate in Michigan

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From the publisher

What does a positive vision for the center-left look like? Can moderation still excite the Democratic base? Matt Yglesias, who writes the Slow Boring newsletter and hosts The Argument podcast, talks to Jon about his vision for the Democratic Party and why he believes more Democrats need to embrace heterodoxy. The two discuss how the policy debate could play out in the upcoming presidential primary, the role charisma and attention-getting play in politics, and which Democrats are best positioned to win in 2028. For a transcript of this episode, email transcripts@crooked.com

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 30, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Politics·News Commentary