Popcast: Olivia Rodrigo Tried Writing Love Songs. Then Life Got Messy.

Episode of The Daily · May 31, 2026 · 1 h 30 min

Olivia Rodrigo talks with Popcast's Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli about her third album, songwriting, fame, politics, Taylor Swift speculation and girlhood.

Summary

In an episode of Popcast shared on The Daily, New York Times critic Jon Caramanica and reporter Joe Coscarelli interviewed Olivia Rodrigo about her third album, "you seem pretty sad for a girl so in love," due June 12. Rodrigo described the record as a chronological account of a relationship's rise and collapse, said she and producer Dan revised early love songs such as "Purple" to make them sadder after writing the breakup material, and called "The Cure" the album's thesis statement. She cited Annie Ernaux's Simple Passion, Sex and the City's Miranda and Steve, and 1980s new wave, notably The Cure after performing with Robert Smith at Glastonbury, as influences, while noting she had moved away from traditional power-chord rock.

Rodrigo reflected on the pressures following the success of Sour when she was 17, her pride in Guts, and her aim to prove she did not need to be miserable to write songs she liked. She described herself as a prolific, quantity-over-quality writer. Discussing politics, she said no one on her team had discouraged her from speaking out on issues such as Gaza, and credited her parents for encouraging her outspokenness. She declined to engage deeply with speculation about Taylor Swift, said she skipped the Met Gala because she is "not a fashion girl" and prefers things aligned with her values, and argued that criticism of her baby doll dress reflected a culture that normalizes the sexualization of girls.

The conversation also covered her SNL hosting stint, where the hosts helped correct a sketch that mislabeled dancehall as reggaeton, her young fans, the documentary Spirits in the Forest, and a lightning round in which she discussed missing a normal childhood as a homeschooled only child, deleting social media apps, and her love of card games and yoga. The episode closed with a snack tasting of Herr's long hots and sharp provolone chips.

Chapters

0:30
Introduction and first podcast
Michael Barbaro introduces Popcast, and the hosts welcome Olivia Rodrigo and recap her career from Disney to Sour and Guts.
5:41
Hosting Saturday Night Live
Rodrigo praises the SNL team and the hosts recount correcting a sketch that called dancehall reggaeton.
9:25
Structure of the new album
Rodrigo explains the album's chronological relationship narrative, revisions to early love songs, and literary and TV influences.
15:55
New wave sound and The Cure
Rodrigo discusses her shift from pop-punk to 1980s new wave and calls "The Cure" the album's thesis statement.
21:29
Songwriting process, jealousy and cursing
Rodrigo describes writing prolifically, the angry song "My Way," and swearing less than in her teens.
29:07
Trust, Guts and the aftermath of Sour
Rodrigo reflects on trust, the pressures after Sour, and how she views Guts now.
41:30
Writing love songs and favorite tracks
The hosts share favorite songs and Rodrigo discusses the challenge of writing nuanced love songs.
49:32
Politics, Met Gala and public scrutiny
Rodrigo addresses speaking out on political causes, skipping the Met Gala, Taylor Swift speculation and the baby doll dress controversy.
58:45
Fans, concerts and girlhood
Rodrigo talks about her young audience, the documentary Spirits in the Forest, and girlhood as a theme.
Linked moment · 1:08:32Skip to 1:08:32 using a listen link in the info box.
1:08:32
Lightning round
Rodrigo answers card-drawn questions about her childhood, jealousy, talents, DMs, social media and career setbacks.
1:19:03
Influences, credit and opening acts
Rodrigo discusses being a fangirl, borrowing accusations, lingering tension with Taylor Swift, and her tour's opening acts.
1:24:35
Snack tasting
The group tastes and rates Herr's long hots and sharp provolone chips.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo says she writes songs to process her feelings rather than planning concept records.
“write songs to like process my feelings. So every day when I like come and like, I sit at the piano or I get the guitar”
Listen from 10:11 · Songwriting creative process
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo says that after writing the breakup songs, she and Dan revised earlier love songs on the album to make them sadder.
“tweaking some of the love songs that were on the record and making them a little more honest and more sad and creepy”
Listen from 10:39 · you seem pretty sad for a girl so in love
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo rejects the label concept album for her new record, calling it more of a capsule.
“It's not a concept album. I think that's doing a disservice to actual concept albums”
Listen from 11:55 · you seem pretty sad for a girl so in love
Joe Coscarelli
Coscarelli argues the album's tight narrative does make it a concept album, comparing it to Good Kid, M.A.A.D City.
“would go so far as to call it a concept album”
Listen from 12:11 · you seem pretty sad for a girl so in love
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo says Annie Ernaux's novel Simple Passion inspired her exploration of how love can make one miserable.
“I was really inspired by this book, Simple Passion, by Annie Arnaud”
Listen from 13:14 · Simple Passion
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo describes "The Cure" as the central statement of her new album.
“I think that song is the thesis statement of the album, You Seem Pretty Sad for a Girl So In Love”
Listen from 18:27 · The Cure (Olivia Rodrigo song)
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo says the relationship taught her that a partner cannot solve one's own problems.
“I kind of just realized that the issues that you have aren't just going to be solved by some other person”
Listen from 19:32 · The Cure (Olivia Rodrigo song)
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo describes herself as a prolific songwriter who writes many weak songs to find a few she loves.
“I write, like, 250 songs that are the worst and then I write, like, three songs that I love”
Listen from 22:42 · Songwriting creative process
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo names "All-American Bitch" from Guts as her favorite song she has written.
“I think like All American Bitch is like my favorite song I've ever written”
Listen from 33:22 · Guts (Olivia Rodrigo album)
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo says she did not grasp the scale of Sour's success at age 17 and now feels compassion for herself.
“What happened with Sour was crazy. And at the time, I didn't realize how crazy it was”
Listen from 33:31 · Sour (Olivia Rodrigo album)
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo says writing happy love songs was a challenge meant to prove she need not be sad to write well.
“I wanted to prove to myself that I didn't have to be miserable to write a song that I liked”
Listen from 46:17 · Songwriting creative process
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo says expressing her feelings about Gaza is part of being an artist and that no one on her team has discouraged her.
“I think it would just be disingenuous to be like I don't feel heartbroken about what's going on in Gaza”
Listen from 50:41 · Political activism by musicians
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo credits her parents for fostering her willingness to speak her mind.
“my parents never made me feel like stupid for saying something or never made me feel like I was being too much or too emotional or oversharing”
Listen from 51:53 · Political activism by musicians
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo explains she no longer feels obliged to do things that do not bring her joy or align with her values.
“I don't feel like I need to do things that don't bring me joy or inspire me”
Listen from 54:04 · 2026 Met Gala
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo argues that criticism of her covered-up baby doll dress as inappropriate reveals a cultural problem with the sexualization of girls.
“It just shows how we just really normalize pedophilia in our culture”
Listen from 57:42 · Baby doll dress controversy
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo says the audience accounts for most of what makes a concert great.
“it's like 75% of what makes a concert great is the audience”
Listen from 1:02:25 · Fame
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo says she regrets not having a normal childhood, describing a lonely upbringing as a homeschooled only child.
“I'm a homeschooled only child. Like, it was very lonely, like, upbringing”
Listen from 1:11:51 · Fame
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo says she frequently deletes Instagram and TikTok because social media harms her focus.
“And it like fragments my days and fragments my attention span”
Listen from 1:16:14
Olivia Rodrigo
Rodrigo says she tries not to dwell on past songwriting-credit disputes and speculation about tension with Taylor Swift.
“I think there's no, it was so long ago. I think there's no use in like hopping on it”
Listen from 1:21:43 · Taylor Swift and Olivia Rodrigo relationship
Jon Caramanica
Caramanica praises Rodrigo's choice to bring veteran acts like the Breeders on tour as an obvious but underused idea.
“I remember just when that announcement came out, I was just like, why don't more people do this? It's like such an obvious idea”
Listen from 1:23:24

People

In the conversation

Jon CaramanicaNew York Times pop music critic and co-host of Popcast
Joe CoscarelliNew York Times culture reporter and co-host of Popcast
Olivia RodrigoAmerican singer-songwriter who performed 'Ironic' on stage with Morissette

Discussed

Dan NigroProducer and co-writer of Olivia Rodrigo's albums, referred to as Dan
Robert SmithLead singer of The Cure, who performed with Rodrigo at Glastonbury
Taylor SwiftAmerican singer-songwriter cited as an example of public love-and-hate cycles
Annie ErnauxFrench author of Simple Passion, cited as an inspiration
Kathleen HannaBikini Kill and Le Tigre frontwoman, one of Rodrigo's heroes
Sofia CoppolaFilmmaker whose work on girlhood the hosts compared to Rodrigo's
Weyes BloodSinger who performed with Rodrigo on SNL
Fiona AppleSinger-songwriter Rodrigo called her piano influence
Tori AmosAmerican singer-songwriter cited as a 1990s radio rival

Topics

Paul McCartney
Good Hang with Amy Poehler · Oct 13, 2026 · 1 h 17 min
Amy Poehler talks with Paul McCartney about the Beatles, Wings, songwriting, his new album Boys of Dungeon Lane, family, and SNL, with questions from Stella McCartney.
The Blake Griffin Episode
Friends Keep Secrets · Jun 30, 2026 · 1 h
Retired NBA star Blake Griffin talks with Benny Blanco, Dave Burd and Kristin Batalucco about pressure, injuries, Lob City, locker-room life, trash talk and retirement.
"Nick Jonas"
SmartLess · May 25, 2026 · 1 h 2 min
Nick Jonas talks with Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes and Will Arnett about his child Broadway start, the Jonas Brothers, songwriting, AI in music, golf, and his Indian wedding.
#2504 - Skylar Grey
The Joe Rogan Experience · May 22, 2026 · 2 h 5 min
Joe Rogan talks with singer-songwriter Skylar Grey about AI music, her childhood performing career, writing "Love the Way You Lie," ranch life, mountain lions, and creativity.

From the publisher

Olivia Rodrigo sat down with Joe and Jon for her first in-depth conversation about her new album, “you seem pretty sad for a girl so in love,” out June 12. She discussed the many ways her creative process intersects with the extracurricular noise of pop superstardom, whether its managing relationship drama, being targeted for the way she dresses; accusations of pilfering songwriting gestures from Taylor Swift, her onetime idol, or her willingness to speak up about political and social causes in a way many of her peers won’t.

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 28, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Music Interviews·Music Commentary