The Best TV Shows of the 21st Century
Episode of The Daily · September 27, 2026 · 57 min
Natalie Kitroeff talks with Times colleagues Gilbert Cruz and James Poniewozik about the New York Times list of the 100 best TV shows of the 21st century.
Summary
In this Sunday edition of The Daily, host Natalie Kitroeff discussed The New York Times' newly published list of the 100 best TV shows of the 21st century, compiled from ballots cast by hundreds of industry insiders, with canon editor Gilbert Cruz and chief TV critic James Poniewozik. Neither guest had voted on the list. They worked through the top 10, interspersed with clips of the shows and comments from voters such as Andy Cohen, Padma Lakshmi, Brett Goldstein and David Benioff.
On numbers 10 through 6 (Atlanta, Curb Your Enthusiasm, 30 Rock, Veep and Game of Thrones), Kitroeff asked why comedies ranked lower. Cruz argued that great shows mix comedy and drama, while Poniewozik said he was surprised by how much comedy made the top 10. He credited Curb with helping define cringe comedy and praised Veep's cynical view of human nature. Discussing Fleabag, Succession and Mad Men, the panel explored unlikable protagonists and creators' personal voices. Cruz also traced the peak TV era that made room for shows like Fleabag.
Poniewozik said he was stunned The Wire placed second rather than first. On Breaking Bad, the number one show, he suggested that viewers' judgment of Walter White's moral arc may depend on whether they watched weekly or binged. Cruz noted Vince Gilligan's recent doubts about glorifying antiheroes. In the final segment Cruz explained that The Sopranos was excluded by the 2000 cutoff, and Poniewozik argued its influence pervades the whole list. As overlooked picks, Cruz named Hannibal, and Poniewozik named Rectify, Jackass, Adventure Time, Transparent and Orange Is the New Black. The episode closed with an invitation for readers to submit their own ballots.
Chapters
- 1:10
Introducing the list
Kitroeff describes the Times survey of over a thousand TV luminaries and introduces Gilbert Cruz and James Poniewozik.
- 3:56
Numbers 10 to 6 and the comedy question
Cruz reads numbers 10 through 6, and the panel debates why comedies rank lower and discusses 30 Rock's joke density.
- 11:40
Curb Your Enthusiasm
The panel discusses Larry David's show as a defining work of cringe comedy and wish fulfillment.
- 15:44
Veep
Cruz and Poniewozik praise Veep's insults and cynical portrait of political ambition.
- 19:30
Number 5: Fleabag
The panel discusses Phoebe Waller-Bridge's unconventional protagonist and the peak TV economics that enabled her show.
- 25:14
Number 4: Succession
The discussion turns to how Succession made viewers invested in horrible people without excusing them.
- 30:30
Number 3: Mad Men
Poniewozik and Cruz explain their love of Mad Men as a layered story about advertising, myth and self-deception.
- 35:00
Number 2: The Wire
Poniewozik expresses surprise The Wire was not number one, and the panel discusses its novelistic, systemic scope.
- 40:12
Number 1: Breaking Bad
The panel makes the case for Breaking Bad, discussing binge-watching, Walter White's moral arc and the antihero trope.
- 48:29
The Sopranos and the cutoff
Cruz explains that The Sopranos premiered in 1999, and Poniewozik argues its influence runs through the whole list.
- 51:56
Snubbed shows
Cruz champions Hannibal, and Poniewozik makes cases for Jackass, Rectify and other omitted shows.
- 57:12
Reader voting and close
Cruz explains how readers can submit their own top 10 lists for a reader-voted ranking.
Key points
What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.
- Gilbert Cruz
Cruz argues that the top 10 shows illustrate that great television always mixes comedy and drama.
“I think something that this top 10 shows overall is that there's a way in which great shows always mix comedy and drama”
Listen from 5:23 · The New York Times 100 Best TV Shows of the 21st Century
- James Poniewozik
Poniewozik says he was surprised by how many comedies made the top 10, given a bias toward dramas.
“It actually surprised me that there was this much comedy in the top ten”
Listen from 6:17 · The New York Times 100 Best TV Shows of the 21st Century
- James Poniewozik
Poniewozik argues that 30 Rock succeeded because it had something to say, unlike pure joke machines such as Family Guy.
“if you are just the unending joke machine, you end up with Family Guy”
- James Poniewozik
Poniewozik argues that Curb Your Enthusiasm, with shows like the British Office, helped define cringe comedy.
“It kind of defined this genre of entertainment cringe comedy, for lack of a better word”
- James Poniewozik
Poniewozik praises Veep for its cynical view of people as grasping and inept.
“it comes from this beautifully cynical notion of human nature that people are just, you know, grasping and inept”
- James Poniewozik
Poniewozik says Fleabag's protagonist would have been rejected by a traditional network in the 1990s as unlikable.
“Fleabag is somebody, if you pitch this, you know, to CBS in 1992... or whatever, you know, you are not surviving that pitch meeting well”
- Gilbert Cruz
Cruz explains that the peak TV competition among network, cable and streaming created room for idiosyncratic voices like Waller-Bridge's.
“In 2015, the phrase peak TV was coined by the head of FX, this guy John Landgraf”
- Andy Cohen
Andy Cohen says that, having known people like the Roys, he found Succession's depiction accurate.
“I've known people like the Roys, and I thought that the depiction in Succession was pitch perfect”
- James Poniewozik
Poniewozik argues that Succession made the Roys' pain recognizable without excusing their behavior.
“it was able to make all this very real without excusing any of the horribleness”
- James Poniewozik
Poniewozik says he has rewatched Mad Men more than any other show in the top of the list, four or five times in full.
“I've watched this show probably more times than anything on the top of this list”
- Gilbert Cruz
Cruz argues that Mad Men is psychologically perceptive because it is about lying, both in advertising and in how people see themselves.
“It's also about people lying to themselves and each other about who they are, who we are”
- James Poniewozik
Poniewozik says he was stunned The Wire did not rank first, calling it one of TV's greatest achievements.
“I should start off saying that I was actually really stunned to see that The Wire did not end up as number one”
- Natalie Kitroeff
Kitroeff recounts that binge-watching the final season of Breaking Bad was intense and not enjoyable.
“I had to binge basically all of the last season of Breaking Bad. And can I just say, it's not an enjoyable experience”
- James Poniewozik
Poniewozik suggests that whether Walter White seems corrupted or innately bad may depend on whether viewers watched weekly or binged.
“I honestly think that the way you see that... might well depend on, you know, how you watched the show”
- Gilbert Cruz
Cruz explains that The Sopranos was excluded because it premiered in 1999, before the list's cutoff.
“The Sopranos, which is a great show, one of the best TV shows of all time, came out in 1999”
- James Poniewozik
Poniewozik argues that although The Sopranos is absent from the list, its influence is visible throughout it.
“The Sopranos is not on the list, but also it is everywhere on the list”
- James Poniewozik
Poniewozik traces the antihero lineage from Tony Soprano to Walter White and Succession.
“It's pretty easy to draw a line from Tony Soprano to Walter White”
Linked moment · 52:43Skip to 52:43 using a listen link in the info box.
Gilbert CruzCruz says Hannibal is extremely gory but also one of the most beautiful shows ever on TV, and that it should have made the list.
“one of the grossest things I've ever seen in my entire life. I don't know how it made it onto network TV”
- James Poniewozik
Poniewozik argues that Jackass deserves recognition as an anarchic work of American art.
“I think you could make a strong case for putting Jackass on this as like a great work of American art”
- James Poniewozik
Poniewozik says Rectify would have been in his personal top 10 and recommends viewers seek it out on streaming.
“a show that I not only would have put on this list that is not on it, but I probably would have put in my top ten”
People
In the conversation
- Natalie KitroeffNew York Times journalist and host of The Daily
- Gilbert CruzCanon editor at The New York Times
- James PoniewozikChief television critic at The New York Times
- Andy CohenHost of Watch What Happens Live
Discussed
- Larry DavidCo-creator of Seinfeld and creator and star of Curb Your Enthusiasm
- Phoebe Waller-BridgeBritish writer and actress who created Fleabag
- John LandgrafHead of FX, credited with coining the phrase 'peak TV'
- Jon HammAmerican actor known for playing Don Draper on Mad Men
- Bryan CranstonActor who played Walter White in Breaking Bad
- Giancarlo EspositoActor who played Gus Fring in Breaking Bad
- Tracy MorganComedian attached to Kroll and Mulaney's unmade film
- Jerry SeinfeldComedian and co-creator of Seinfeld
- Jeremy EgnerNew York Times TV editor who interviewed Vince Gilligan for the project
- David LettermanLate-night host who competed for The Tonight Show
Topics
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From the publisher
The turn of the century was the beginning of a new era in television: prestige TV for the masses. Today, television is where big stars and innovative creators go to marshal sizable budgets and tell meaningful stories. Over recent months, our colleagues at The New York Times ran a survey, asking industry insiders — on-screen talent, writers, directors, producers, executives and others — to pick their top 10 television series of the last 26 years. We compiled their responses into a list, published this week, of the best TV of the 21st century. In this episode of “The Sunday Daily,” The Times’s canon editor, Gilbert Cruz, and our chief TV critic, James Poniewozik, talk with our host Natalie Kitroeff about what made the list, and what didn’t.
Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 28, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.