JRE MMA Show #179 with Josh Thompson & "Big" John McCarthy

Episode of The Joe Rogan Experience · May 27, 2026 · 2 h 52 min

Joe Rogan, referee Big John McCarthy and retired fighter Josh Thompson discuss MMA rules, weight cutting, judging, brain health, recent fights, the UFC White House card, ibogaine and California politics.

Summary

Joe Rogan hosted referee "Big" John McCarthy and retired fighter Josh Thompson, co-hosts of the Weighing In podcast, for an MMA-focused conversation. They opened on McCarthy's return to refereeing and his reduced role on their show, then criticized New Jersey's continued ban on 12-to-6 elbows, which McCarthy said he had written into the unified rules. The three reminisced about Pride-era fighters such as Fedor Emelianenko and Mirko Cro Cop and debated the dangers of weight cutting, with Rogan calling it the grossest thing in MMA and McCarthy explaining why random weigh-ins could work for a single promotion but not sport-wide.

They analyzed Rico Verhoeven's boxing fight with Oleksandr Usyk, which all considered a bad stoppage; McCarthy faulted the referee for sending Verhoeven's mouthpiece to be rinsed. Discussion moved to judging, where Rogan raised betting-related concerns and an FBI inquiry into UFC fights, while McCarthy defended many judges and rejected five-judge panels. Rogan and McCarthy opposed win bonuses; Thompson favored a smaller win share. The group discussed brain trauma and recovery, citing Alexander Volkanovski's quick return against Islam Makhachev, Freddie Roach's career and the APOE4 gene's link to CTE, and praised Khabib Nurmagomedov's discipline and dominance.

Later segments covered performance-enhancing drugs and the Enhanced Games, boxing crossover, Carlos Prates, Justin Gaethje's upcoming fight with Ilia Topuria, and Joe Schilling's quitting after an intentional headbutt, which McCarthy explained in detail. McCarthy described writing Bare Knuckle FC's rules and a failed California bill to fund retired fighters. Rogan welcomed Scott Coker's new promotion and MVP's Netflix event, but objected to holding a title fight outdoors at the White House.

Rogan recounted texting Donald Trump to push for ibogaine access, crediting Rick Perry and Dan Patrick for Texas funding. The episode closed with complaints about homelessness in California, taxes and government fraud, and McCarthy inviting Rogan to his referee course.

Chapters

0:12
Refereeing and the 12-to-6 elbow
The hosts discuss McCarthy's return to refereeing and criticize New Jersey's refusal to adopt legal 12-to-6 elbows.
5:24
Pride legends and striking
The group reminisces about Fedor Emelianenko, Cro Cop, Shogun Rua and Jose Aldo's skills.
20:05
Weight cutting
They debate the dangers of weight cutting, random weigh-ins, and fighters like Alex Pereira and Max Holloway moving up.
35:35
Verhoeven vs. Usyk
The three analyze the stoppage of Rico Verhoeven's fight with Oleksandr Usyk and mouthpiece rules.
47:08
Judging, betting and win bonuses
They discuss judging controversies, betting-linked concerns, five-judge panels and opposition to win bonuses.
1:01:48
Brain damage and Khabib's discipline
The group covers concussion recovery, Volkanovski's quick return, fighter longevity and Khabib Nurmagomedov's dominance and lifestyle.
1:26:43
PEDs and the Enhanced Games
They discuss extreme steroid users, the Enhanced Games, CTE genetics and ringside medicine.
1:44:47
Boxing crossover and rising contenders
Discussion turns to Terence Crawford, Carlos Prates, Islam Makhachev matchups and prospects outside the UFC.
2:01:52
Joe Schilling headbutt incident
McCarthy explains the rules behind Joe Schilling's decision to quit after an intentional headbutt.
2:08:18
Bare knuckle, promotions and the White House card
They cover the MVP Netflix card, bare-knuckle rules, a California fighter retirement bill, Scott Coker's promotion, McGregor's return and outdoor fighting concerns.
2:33:23
Ibogaine and California politics
Rogan describes pushing Trump on ibogaine, and the group discusses homelessness, taxes and government fraud.
2:43:56
Referee course and wrap-up
McCarthy invites Rogan to his refereeing course and the episode closes.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

John McCarthy
McCarthy says he wrote the rule changes legalizing 12-to-6 elbows, which the ABC passed with a six-month implementation period.
“I wrote those things out, and they were passed by the ABC, but we gave six months”
Listen from 2:45 · Ultimate Fighting Championship
Linked moment · 20:05Skip to 20:05 using a listen link in the info box.
Joe Rogan
Rogan argues that weight cutting is the worst aspect of MMA and should be stopped.
“for people that have never done that before and don't know, it's fucking hard. Even 24 hours is hard. Weight cutting is the grossest thing in MMA”
Listen from 20:59 · Weight cutting in mixed martial arts
John McCarthy
McCarthy argues random weigh-ins could be implemented by a promotion but not across the sport because of state licensing limits.
“You could do it as a promotion. You can't do it as an industry within the sport”
Listen from 22:14 · Weight cutting in mixed martial arts
Joe Rogan
Rogan calls the stoppage of Verhoeven's fight with Usyk a bad one, since Verhoeven took little damage after the knockdown.
“why would you let him rinse the glove off? And he didn't take significant damage after that. That's a bad stoppage”
Listen from 38:24 · Rico Verhoeven vs. Oleksandr Usyk
John McCarthy
McCarthy says sending the mouthpiece to the corner for rinsing showed the referee had not kept up with current refereeing practice.
“No, what it means is you have not advanced as a referee to understand what we do now”
Listen from 40:13 · Rico Verhoeven vs. Oleksandr Usyk
Joe Rogan
Rogan says the UFC has a problem with suspicious fights and that the FBI has examined several of them.
“There's a real problem with quite a few fights. The FBI has looked into quite a few fights”
Listen from 49:30 · Sports betting
John McCarthy
McCarthy says from experience that using five judges instead of three does not change outcomes.
“I've worked with it. I've done it too many times. It doesn't change anything”
Listen from 51:38 · Judging in mixed martial arts
Joe Rogan
Rogan opposes win bonuses, arguing fighter pay should not depend on judges' decisions.
“It should be dependent upon you showed up, you fought your fucking ass off, you're trying to win”
Listen from 53:54 · Ultimate Fighting Championship
Josh Thompson
Thompson accepts win bonuses if pay is weighted heavily toward show money.
“I'm okay with the win bonus, but it's got to be more skewed towards the show money”
Listen from 55:04 · Ultimate Fighting Championship
Joe Rogan
Rogan argues Volkanovski should not have been allowed to fight Topuria so soon after a head-kick knockout.
“no one should have let Volkanovski take that fight. You got head kicked four months ago into a coma”
Listen from 1:02:10 · Chronic traumatic encephalopathy
Josh Thompson
Thompson says Khabib is the only fighter never to have bled inside the UFC octagon.
“Khabib is the only guy who's never bled inside the UFC octagon”
Listen from 1:11:12 · Khabib Nurmagomedov
John McCarthy
McCarthy considers Jon Jones the greatest but Khabib the most dominant fighter he ever refereed.
“The most dominant fighter I ever stepped into that cage with was Khabib”
Listen from 1:11:35 · Khabib Nurmagomedov
John McCarthy
McCarthy argues enhancement is different in combat sports because it increases the damage inflicted on another person.
“But it's different when you're lifting a weight or you're swimming in a pool or doing those things or you're beating on another human being”
Listen from 1:34:02 · Enhanced Games
John McCarthy
McCarthy explains that a referee cannot force a fighter to continue once he asks to stop.
“you can't make somebody fight. If someone says, I want out of the fight, they're out of the fight”
Listen from 2:04:41 · Joe Schilling headbutt disqualification
John McCarthy
McCarthy characterizes the headbutt on Schilling as an intentional, malicious foul.
“I call it malicious. It's a malicious attack on him. You're maliciously trying to inflict an injury on someone through a foul”
Listen from 2:07:47 · Joe Schilling headbutt disqualification
John McCarthy
McCarthy says he wrote the original rules for Bare Knuckle FC at Dave Feldman's request.
“I wrote the rules for Bare Knuckle long ago. Dave Feldman came to me and said, hey, I need rules written for me”
Listen from 2:09:39 · Bare-knuckle boxing
John McCarthy
McCarthy says California's Assembly Bill 2130, which would have funded retired fighters through sponsorships rather than taxes, was turned down.
“It was Assembly Bill 2130 in California. And that assembly bill was no money out of the taxpayers' money, zero taxpayer money”
Listen from 2:13:35 · Most Valuable Promotions MMA Netflix event
Joe Rogan
Rogan supports Scott Coker's return but doubts $60 million is enough to run an MMA promotion.
“I like Scott a lot, but good luck. You only have $60 million”
Listen from 2:15:41 · Ultimate Fighting Championship
Joe Rogan
Rogan objects to holding world championship fights outdoors, as planned at the White House.
“I just don't think that you should compete in a world championship fight in a non-controlled environment”
Listen from 2:29:39 · UFC White House event
Joe Rogan
Rogan recounts that after he texted Trump about ibogaine, Trump told him at a UFC event the next day that it was done.
“I texted him on Friday. He showed up to the UFC on Saturday, shook my hand and said, it's done”
Listen from 2:33:36 · Ibogaine
Josh Thompson
Thompson says that on a recent visit to San Diego he felt unsafe there for the first time.
“i felt like for the first time i didn't feel safe there”
Listen from 2:37:08 · Homelessness
John McCarthy
McCarthy, a former police officer, argues that placing mentally ill homeless people in treatment is better for them and the public.
“it's better for them and it's better for the people that are out on the street just trying to live their lives”
Listen from 2:38:13 · Homelessness
Joe Rogan
Rogan endorses an idea he attributes to Jeff Bezos of not taxing the lowest-earning half of Americans.
“He said the bottom 50%, the people that make the least amount of money, don't tax them at all”
Listen from 2:41:00 · Government fraud and waste

People

In the conversation

Joe RoganAmerican comedian and host of The Joe Rogan Experience
John McCarthyVeteran MMA referee, PFL commentator and founder of the C.O.M.M.A.N.D. referee and judge training school
Josh ThompsonRetired MMA champion, fight analyst and co-host of the Weighing In podcast

Discussed

Fedor EmelianenkoRussian heavyweight mixed martial artist and former Pride champion
Mirko Cro CopCroatian kickboxer and former Pride fighter
Khabib NurmagomedovRussian former mixed martial artist from Dagestan who retired as UFC lightweight champion with a 29-0 record
Islam MakhachevDagestani UFC champion and longtime training partner of Nurmagomedov
Alexander VolkanovskiFormer UFC featherweight champion
Ilia TopuriaUFC lightweight champion
Justin GaethjeAmerican mixed martial artist and Nurmagomedov's final opponent
Max HollowayUFC fighter scheduled to face Conor McGregor
Rico VerhoevenDutch Glory heavyweight kickboxing champion
Oleksandr UsykUkrainian heavyweight boxing champion
Conor McGregorIrish mixed martial artist and former UFC two-division champion
Joe SchillingVeteran kickboxer and MMA fighter who quit a fight after a headbutt
Mike BeltranMMA referee in the Schilling fight
Francis NgannouCameroonian heavyweight fighter formerly with the PFL
Dana WhitePresident and CEO of the UFC
Donald TrumpPresident of the United States whose conduct of the Iran war is the episode's main subject
Rick PerryFormer Texas governor involved in the Texas ibogaine initiative
Dan PatrickLieutenant Governor of Texas who backed state ibogaine funding
Andy FosterExecutive officer of the California State Athletic Commission
Scott CokerFormer Bellator and Strikeforce promoter returning to MMA
Terence CrawfordUndefeated boxing champion who beat Canelo Álvarez
Freddie RoachBoxing trainer and former professional boxer

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From the publisher

Joe sits down with Josh Thompson, a retired champion mixed martial artist and fight analyst, and Big John McCarthy, a veteran mixed martial arts referee, Professional Fighters League commentator, and founder of Big John McCarthy’s C.O.M.M.A.N.D., an internationally recognized training school for referees and judges in mixed martial arts. Josh and John host the “Weighing In” podcast.www.youtube.com/@WeighingInhttps://linktr.ee/weighinginpodcastwww.mmareferee.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. 50% off your first box at https://thefarmersdog.com/rogan! Use code ROGAN at https://BlueChew.com to get 10% OFF + Free Overnight Shipping on your first order. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 28, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Sports·Sports News·Politics