Vanessa Van Edwards
Behavioral researcher, bestselling author, and founder of Science of People
Vanessa Van Edwards (Behavioral researcher, bestselling author, and founder of Science of People) has appeared as a guest on 2 episodes in TMT. Topics they speak about most include Body language, Small talk, Energy management and burnout.
In their words
Positions and remarks grouped by topic, each with the exact quote and where it was said.
Body language
Van Edwards argues people believe gestures over words because it is hard to lie with gestures.
“it is very hard to lie with gestures. We are very used to lying with our words”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 40:53
Van Edwards says research found the steeple was rated the most charismatic hand gesture among leaders.
“They found there was one single gesture that people rated as the most charismatic. And it is, I call it the power pose for the hands”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 37:31
Van Edwards explains that hunched shoulders are an evolutionary neck-protecting cue that signals danger to the brain and triggers awkwardness symptoms.
“If you do the opposite, you're telling your brain, we are not safe, which then makes you have more cortisol, which shuts down your thinking”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 31:20
Van Edwards claims hunched phone-checking posture repeatedly puts people into defeat body language before important events.
“That is what everyone does when they check their phone. So accidentally, multiple times a day, you are putting yourself into defeat and shame body language”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 32:12
Van Edwards says people tend to point their toes toward the most important person in a room, revealing the boss.
“typically we point our toes towards the most important person in the room. That is because subconsciously our body is attuned to them”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 25:39
Van Edwards says roughly 60 to 70 percent eye contact is ideal in Western cultures, because constant eye contact impairs complex thinking.
“We don't even want 70% eye contact. 60-70% eye contact is more ideal in Western cultures”
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett: Vanessa Van Edwards: The Conversation Habit That Makes Smart People Unlikable (Sep 10, 2026) · Listen from 2:14:26
Small talk
Van Edwards cites the peak-end effect to argue that the ending of a conversation matters as much as the first impression.
“So there's a behavior concept, the peak-end effect, that we remember the first few minutes of a conversation and the last few minutes of conversation”
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett: Vanessa Van Edwards: The Conversation Habit That Makes Smart People Unlikable (Sep 10, 2026) · Listen from 1:56:02
Van Edwards contends that communication friction harms company performance and that easy small talk improves productivity.
“When you have a company that has a lot of communication friction, you have employees who doubt themselves”
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett: Vanessa Van Edwards: The Conversation Habit That Makes Smart People Unlikable (Sep 10, 2026) · Listen from 20:32
Van Edwards argues that conversation should seek stories rather than facts.
“I truly believe a fact is a stop sign. A story is a doorway”
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett: Vanessa Van Edwards: The Conversation Habit That Makes Smart People Unlikable (Sep 10, 2026) · Listen from 13:18
Van Edwards argues that scripted questions such as "How are you?" and "What do you do?" push people into autopilot.
“So these last two, how are you and what do you do? They're very socially scripted, right? The moment we ask those questions, our brain goes into autopilot”
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett: Vanessa Van Edwards: The Conversation Habit That Makes Smart People Unlikable (Sep 10, 2026) · Listen from 9:03
Energy management and burnout
Van Edwards recommends taking a break from seeing people one is unsure about to test whether one misses them.
“Those question marks, please stop seeing them. Just for a while. Do you miss them? Is your life different not seeing them?”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 10:35
Van Edwards contends that ambivalent relationships drain more energy than either toxic or good ones.
“The relationships that are the most toxic are not the toxic relationships. They're actually the ambivalent relationships”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 9:25
Van Edwards argues that burnout and busyness are not markers of success and that people should stop competing over who is busiest.
“Busyness and burnout is not a mark of success. So being burnt out just means you're saying yes to too much, you're doing too much”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 5:28
Goal setting
Van Edwards believes everyone should have a big quest because it provides meaning and purpose.
“I think if you don't have some kind of quest that you're working on right now, it's hard to find meaning”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 1:18:44
Van Edwards argues 'if-then' happiness goals set people up for burnout and recommends enjoying the process as much as the outcome.
“this is those if-then statements, which I think are a killer for burnout and a killer for happiness”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 1:16:51
Conversation starters
Van Edwards reports that in her speed networking experiment 'What's your story?' was polarizing, loved by extroverts and hated by introverts.
“So introverts and ambiverts hate this question”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 55:06
Van Edwards recommends replacing 'What do you do?' with questions like 'Working on anything exciting recently?' because the former boxes people in.
“That question is problematic for me because I think that what you're really asking is what are you worth? You're trying to put someone in a box”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 52:41
Likability
Van Edwards says faking positivity is not harmful but is less impactful, citing research that only genuine smiles improved observers' mood.
“I don't love you to be fake. It just makes you less impactful and influential. However, it doesn't have a detrimental effect on someone”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 20:47
Van Edwards cites a study of high schoolers finding the most popular students had the longest lists of people they liked, concluding likability is within one's control.
“he found that the most liked kids, the most popular kids, had the longest list of people they liked”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 13:29
Loneliness
Van Edwards says she regrets living far from her family when her children were very young.
“I regret being away from my family when my children were very, very little. It was really hard to have babies without my mom, without my sister”
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett: Vanessa Van Edwards: The Conversation Habit That Makes Smart People Unlikable (Sep 10, 2026) · Listen from 2:25:03
Van Edwards believes the current generation is the last that will learn conversation mainly from other humans.
“I think this is the last generation that will learn about conversation via human”
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett: Vanessa Van Edwards: The Conversation Habit That Makes Smart People Unlikable (Sep 10, 2026) · Listen from 3:11
Online dating
Van Edwards recommends that single people ask for phone numbers rather than social media handles.
“So my challenge for single people is stop asking for handles and ask for numbers”
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett: Vanessa Van Edwards: The Conversation Habit That Makes Smart People Unlikable (Sep 10, 2026) · Listen from 1:16:38
Van Edwards argues that researching dates on Instagram beforehand makes first-date conversations more awkward.
“This is, I think, why we're having awkward first date conversations. Why first dates have gotten even worse is because you're on the first date”
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett: Vanessa Van Edwards: The Conversation Habit That Makes Smart People Unlikable (Sep 10, 2026) · Listen from 1:14:32
Three levels of conversation
Van Edwards argues that very smart people often shut down connection by fact-checking others' dreams.
“And very smart people tend to dream kill by accident and it shuts down connection completely”
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett: Vanessa Van Edwards: The Conversation Habit That Makes Smart People Unlikable (Sep 10, 2026) · Listen from 1:03:51
Van Edwards says "What's your story?" is a level-three question that is too advanced as an opener.
“So extroverts tend to default to that question because they want to go a little bit deeper. But actually, that is a level three question”
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett: Vanessa Van Edwards: The Conversation Habit That Makes Smart People Unlikable (Sep 10, 2026) · Listen from 11:29
ABCD work exercise
Van Edwards advises optimizing one's A work while giving away B, C, and D work to others whose strengths differ.
“Your day, your entire day should be about optimizing your A work and giving away your B, C and D work”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 1:06:12
Networking event positioning
Van Edwards says her research found standing near the entrance produced the shortest conversations, while the exit of the bar produced the longest.
“the best place, this is where the longest conversations happens and the most business cards were exchanged, was right as people exit the bar”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 59:46
Emotional contagion
Van Edwards cites research finding that sitting within 25 feet of a high performer improves one's own performance by 15%.
“What they found was that if you sit within 25 feet of a high performer, you improve your own performance by 15%”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 56:51
Priming (psychology)
Van Edwards cites a study in which labeling an identical game the 'Wall Street game' versus 'community game' halved profit sharing, and recommends purposeful calendar invite names.
“This is an incredible study because it shows that we can change someone's behavior with one single word”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 45:09
Vulnerability
Van Edwards argues that vulnerability and small mistakes make people more likable than trying to appear perfect.
“In fact, vulnerability is one of the fastest ways to show likability”
The Mel Robbins Podcast: Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence (Sep 26, 2026) · Listen from 22:06
Charisma
Van Edwards says speaking from one's maximum resonance point, the low end of one's natural range, signals pride and calm.
“Maximum resonance point is a part of your voice that is the lowest end of your natural range that signifies pride, that signifies calm”
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett: Vanessa Van Edwards: The Conversation Habit That Makes Smart People Unlikable (Sep 10, 2026) · Listen from 2:10:30
Appearances
Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into ConfidenceThe Mel Robbins Podcast · Sep 26, 2026 · 1 h 23 min
Mel Robbins and behavioral researcher Vanessa Van Edwards discuss body language, energy management, likability, conversation starters, networking positioning, and the ABCD productivity exercise.
Vanessa Van Edwards: The Conversation Habit That Makes Smart People UnlikableThe Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett · Sep 10, 2026 · 2 h 27 min
Behavioral researcher Vanessa Van Edwards tells Steven Bartlett about her three-level conversation framework, over-talking, self-narratives, five story archetypes and the cues behind charisma.
Discussed in
Human Lie Detector: The #1 Sign They’re Lying To You, Catch Liars Instantly! | Dr Leanne ten BrinkeThe Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett · Sep 7, 2026 · 1 h 44 min
Psychologist Leanne ten Brinke tells Steven Bartlett how to detect lies, explains the Dark Tetrad of personality traits, and offers rules for dealing with toxic people.
Often appears with
- Mel Robbins · 1 shared episode
- Steven Bartlett · 1 shared episode