Stopping the Steal with Eric Holder

Episode of Pod Save America · October 25, 2026 · 1 h 12 min

Alex Wagner and former Attorney General Eric Holder discuss how Trump might interfere with the 2026 midterms, Democratic countermeasures, and the fight over mid-decade gerrymandering.

Summary

Alex Wagner interviewed former Attorney General Eric Holder, speaking from the campaign trail in Michigan, about threats to the integrity of the 2026 midterm elections. Holder said he did not take Attorney General Todd Blanche at his word about the Justice Department not interfering with certification, argued the department had become an arm of the White House and RNC, and described tabletop exercises he ran with Hillary Clinton and congressional Democrats, including pre-drafted court filings for certification disputes.

The two discussed Department of Homeland Security efforts to find alleged noncitizen voters, a DOJ demand that California segregate about 20,000 ballots, FBI Director Kash Patel's plans for agents around polling places, an expanded DOJ election-monitor program, the possibility of invoking the Insurrection Act, and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence's role in seizing 2020 ballots in Fulton County. Holder said such efforts were legally baseless, advised voters to make a plan and hand-deliver ballots to official locations, and recommended writs of mandamus and peaceful public protest against officials who refuse to certify. He also expressed confidence in the current House clerk and said a move by Speaker Mike Johnson to replace him would be a warning sign.

Wagner raised a breaking report that the Trump administration sued to block certification of Alaska's Senate race if Senator Dan Sullivan lost while a second candidate named Dan Sullivan was on the ballot; Holder said he did not see a legal basis for it. On redistricting, Holder argued that the Republican mid-decade gerrymandering push had failed because Democrats fought it in court and in the streets, estimated Republican gains at zero to two seats, predicted further attempts in 2027, and called for a federal ban on partisan gerrymandering under a future Democratic trifecta. The conversation closed with both describing the Trump era as a civics education for Americans.

Chapters

0:21
Introduction and the mood in Michigan
Wagner introduces Holder, who reports that Michigan voters are focused on gas prices, the Iran war, and corruption.
3:23
Todd Blanche and a politicized DOJ
After a clip of Blanche declining to rule out DOJ involvement in certification, Holder argues the department lacks clean hands and acts as an arm of the White House.
7:49
Election war games
Holder describes tabletop exercises with Hillary Clinton and lawmakers and pre-prepared court filings to counter interference.
12:51
DHS, noncitizen voters, and mail ballots
They discuss DHS's hunt for alleged noncitizen voters, its intimidating effect, and advice on hand-delivering ballots.
19:34
California ballot segregation and the courts
Holder calls the DOJ's California demand baseless and assesses the Supreme Court, shadow docket, and expedited litigation strategy.
Linked moment · 26:50Skip to 26:50 using a listen link in the info box.
26:50
Messaging and certification
After a Jim Himes clip, Holder discusses preparing voters without alarming them and the role of the House clerk in certification.
36:07
FBI at polls, DOJ monitors, Insurrection Act
Holder says armed federal agents at polling places are illegal and assesses expanded election monitors and the Insurrection Act scenario.
42:45
Refusals to certify and public pressure
Holder recommends writs of mandamus and peaceful protests to compel officials to certify results.
47:54
ODNI and ballot seizures
They discuss Tulsi Gabbard's and Jay Clayton's ODNI role in seizing Fulton County ballots and Puerto Rico voting machines.
51:21
Slow counts and the Alaska Senate race
Holder urges pre-bunking slow vote counts and doubts the legal basis for a lawsuit to block Alaska certification over the two Dan Sullivans.
59:35
The failed GOP gerrymandering push
Holder argues Democrats defeated Trump's mid-decade redistricting and calls for a federal ban on partisan gerrymandering.
1:06:39
A civics lesson and closing call to vote
Wagner and Holder describe the Trump era as an education in democracy and urge listeners to vote and get involved.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

Eric Holder
Holder said corruption has broken through with Michigan voters, who tie it to their own economic struggles.
“I think something that's broken through is corruption. People have really kind of focused on corruption and are tying it”
Listen from 2:27 · 2026 United States midterm elections
Eric Holder
Holder said he does not trust Todd Blanche's assurance that the DOJ will not interfere with certification.
“I don't take Todd Blanche at his word there. He may not be spending all my waking hours thinking about this”
Listen from 5:21 · United States Department of Justice
Eric Holder
Holder argued that the current Justice Department functions as a political arm of the White House and the RNC.
“I'm concerned that this Justice Department is simply an arm of the RNC and of the White House”
Listen from 7:40 · United States Department of Justice
Eric Holder
Holder said Democrats have already prepared court filings for certification disputes that only need case details filled in.
“we already have, you know, court filings that have been prepared and you just got to fill in, you know, what's the district”
Listen from 9:08 · Election war games
Eric Holder
Holder argued that high voter turnout is the best defense against attempts to subvert the election.
“the best antidote to anything that they do is to have huge numbers of people come out and vote”
Listen from 10:36 · 2026 United States midterm elections
Eric Holder
Holder said DHS activity could deter eligible citizens in mixed-status households from voting.
“People who live in mixed households with people who are documented and people who are undocumented you know makes you a little reluctant”
Listen from 14:28 · Noncitizen voting allegations
Eric Holder
Holder advised voters to fill out ballots early and deliver them to an official location rather than mailing them, citing North Carolina's envelope rejections.
“fill out your ballot ahead of time, look at the early voting days that are available, find your polling place”
Listen from 16:52 · Postal voting in the United States
Eric Holder
Holder said there is no legal precedent for the federal government's demand to segregate California ballots.
“No. I mean, they're just making this shit up. I mean, that's just the reality”
Listen from 20:36 · Noncitizen voting allegations
Eric Holder Prediction · due Nov 2026
Holder predicted Democrats would have a good election day and that Trump would afterward allege fraud by noncitizens.
“I guarantee you this, it's going to be a good day for everybody. for Democrats on November the 3rd”
Listen from 22:13 · 2026 United States midterm elections
Eric Holder
Holder said he expects the Supreme Court ultimately to rule correctly on election cases, though by narrower margins than warranted.
“I'm not worried about what ultimately comes out of the court, because I think you find five votes for the court to do the right thing”
Listen from 24:34 · Supreme Court of the United States
Eric Holder
Holder said Democrats trust the current House clerk and that an attempt by Speaker Johnson to replace him would be a warning sign.
“A tell would be if for some reason Johnson tries to replace the clerk of the house sometime after the election”
Listen from 32:03 · Election certification in the United States
Eric Holder
Holder said armed federal agents at polling places are prohibited by law absent a specific predicate.
“no FBI agent should be at a polling place unless there is some predicate”
Listen from 37:03 · Federal Bureau of Investigation
Eric Holder
Holder argued that 1,000 DOJ election monitors, even with bad intent, have limited ability to sway elections given hundreds of thousands of polling places.
“So 1,000 people even with negative intents. don't really have an awful lot of ability to sway elections”
Listen from 40:05 · United States Department of Justice
Eric Holder
Holder recommended writs of mandamus to compel officials who refuse to certify results to do their jobs.
“writs of mandamus are things that in that scenario would be one of the tools that we would try to use”
Listen from 43:30 · Election certification in the United States
Eric Holder
Holder said the Texas gerrymander was dismantled through court action and public protests in states like Georgia and South Carolina.
“that thing didn't fail. It was dismantled. because of things that we did in court”
Listen from 44:58 · Redistricting in the United States
Eric Holder
Holder said slow vote counts in places like Alaska and California should be explained in advance as normal rather than signs of fraud.
“gaps in time between the casting of a ballot and getting a result are expected. And it's not an indication of fraud”
Listen from 53:29 · 2026 United States midterm elections
Eric Holder
Holder said he did not see how the federal government could preemptively sue to block certification of the Alaska Senate race.
“I don't see how you can. There's nothing to certify”
Listen from 58:38 · 2026 United States Senate election in Alaska
Alex Wagner Prediction · due Nov 2026
Wagner said it appears Democrats will win the House because of the administration's mismanagement.
“it really looks like the Democrats are going to win the House based on the catastrophic mismanagement of this administration”
Listen from 1:00:01 · 2026 United States midterm elections
Eric Holder Prediction · due Nov 2026
Holder estimated Republicans would gain at most five and most likely zero to two seats from their mid-decade redistricting push.
“Our best guess now is that their maximum number is five. The more likely number is between zero and two”
Listen from 1:00:45 · Redistricting in the United States
Eric Holder Prediction · due Dec 2027
Holder predicted Republicans would attempt further redistricting in 2027 in states such as Indiana and Mississippi.
“Next year in 2027, they'll try to go back to Indiana, is my guess, Mississippi”
Listen from 1:04:46 · Redistricting in the United States
Eric Holder
Holder called for a federal law banning partisan gerrymandering and mid-cycle redistricting, adjusting the filibuster if necessary, under a future Democratic trifecta.
“to pass a bill that bans partisan gerrymandering, that bans mid-cycle redistricting”
Listen from 1:05:11 · Redistricting in the United States
Alex Wagner
Wagner argued that the Trump years have given Americans a broad education in civics and democratic processes.
“the Trump years have been dark, but they've also been an incredible lesson in civics”
Listen from 1:07:14

People

In the conversation

Alex WagnerMSNBC host who hosts episodes in the Pod Save America feed
Eric HolderFormer U.S. Attorney General under Obama

Discussed

Donald TrumpPresident of the United States whose conduct of the Iran war is the episode's main subject
Todd BlancheDeputy Attorney General named acting Attorney General
Kash PatelDirector of the Federal Bureau of Investigation
Hillary ClintonFormer U.S. secretary of state, subject of a viral photo discussed by the hosts
Tulsi GabbardDirector of National Intelligence
Jay ClaytonU.S. attorney and former SEC chair nominated as Director of National Intelligence
Dan SullivanFounder of Strategic Coach
Mary PeltolaDemocratic Senate candidate in Alaska
Mike JohnsonSpeaker of the House, blamed by the hosts for not bringing the Senate DHS bill to the floor
Kevin McCumberClerk of the U.S. House of Representatives
Rob BontaCalifornia Attorney General who reached a settlement with Paramount
Steve BannonAmerican political strategist who recorded conversations with Epstein
Gavin NewsomGovernor of California, cited for his 2018 primary strategy
Abdul El-SayedDemocratic Senate nominee in Michigan

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From the publisher

Former Attorney General Eric Holder joins Alex Wagner to game out the ways Trump might try to steal the midterms, from weaponizing the Department of Justice, to sending Homeland Security after suspected noncitizen voters, to straight-up misinformation and intimidation. They talk about how Democrats are preparing to fight back, what Holder has learned running election war games with Hillary Clinton, and why listeners need to lock in their voting plan. Then, Holder, chairman of the National Democratic Redistricting Committee, explains why GOP gerrymandering efforts ahead of the midterms have—hopefully—fallen flat, and why the battle against partisan maps will continue into 2028 and beyond. Hate listening to ads? Become a Friends of the Pod subscriber for ad-free episodes of Pod Save America, Pod Save the World, Lovett or Leave It, Runaway Country, Offline with Jon Favreau, and more—plus exclusive content, including bonus episodes of Pod Save America. Subscribe now at crooked.com/friends , on Apple Podcasts, or through the Pod Save America YouTube channel. You can request a transcript by emailing transcripts@crooked.com. Include the podcast name, episode title, and air date. Please allow 48 hours for delivery.

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on October 26, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Politics·Government