#2560 - David Grusch

Episode of The Joe Rogan Experience · September 30, 2026 · 2 h 36 min

Former intelligence officer David Grusch tells Joe Rogan about alleged retaliation against him, recovered non-human craft and beings, and expected UAP disclosure under Trump.

Summary

David Grusch returned to The Joe Rogan Experience after roughly a year and a half working as a professional staff member for Representative Eric Burlison. He described the failure of the UAP Disclosure Act of 2023, his work behind the scenes in Congress, and an alleged criminal enterprise, including child trafficking, run by officers within an unnamed agency under the cover of national security programs, which he said he reported to the Department of Justice. He recounted being administratively targeted from October 2020, receiving a threatening message in early 2022, and being told in an off-books Senate Intelligence Committee meeting that certain individuals had wanted to kill him.

Grusch predicted that the U.S. government would acknowledge recovered craft and non-human intelligence before Donald Trump leaves office, praised Trump's declassification order and Stephen Miller's efforts, and said Miller faced resistance from the bureaucracy. He argued that the main historical obstacle to disclosure was contractual liability with defense contractors, supported an amnesty modeled on South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and cited the 1971 Accident Measures Agreement, a declassified 1952 Lincoln Laboratory recording, and an Australian intelligence document by Harry Turner describing Project Blue Book as a facade.

Grusch said he had seen contemporary video of three or four dead, human-looking beings at a retrieval site, which he described as beautiful, and relayed secondhand accounts of greys and reptilian beings, including a crash in which reptilians reportedly killed U.S. personnel before being shot. He also discussed sentient plasma hypotheses, large underwater bases, the 2026 disappearance of General Neil McCasland, and the risk that artificial superintelligence could reveal the secret first. Rogan raised ancient-history topics including the Labyrinth of Hawara, the Book of Enoch, the Book of Ezekiel, and elongated skulls in Peru, and asked Grusch about online claims involving Matthew Brown, which Grusch denied.

Chapters

0:12
Congressional work and the disclosure fight
Grusch described his time as a staffer for Rep. Eric Burlison after the UAP Disclosure Act failed, and divisions in Congress over the issue.
3:06
Gold bars and a criminal enterprise
Grusch discussed a CIA officer arrested with gold bars and an alleged trafficking enterprise run under national security cover, which Rogan compared to Iran-Contra.
9:19
Retaliation and threats
Grusch recounted being administratively targeted, colleagues reporting Havana syndrome symptoms, and learning in a Senate SCIF meeting that people had wanted to kill him.
20:06
Trump, Stephen Miller and the path to disclosure
Grusch predicted disclosure before Trump leaves office and discussed resistance within government, reverse engineering, and fears about public reaction.
33:21
Foreign programs and treaties
Grusch discussed parallel Chinese and Russian programs, 'donated' craft, the 1971 Accident Measures Agreement, and a 2019 Indian anti-satellite test.
40:28
Grusch's origin story and the contractor problem
Grusch described his lack of personal sightings, his path to the UAP Task Force, the 2004 disclosure exercise, contractor liability, and amnesty.
50:54
Plasmoids, craft types and cadaver footage
Grusch discussed sentient plasma theories and craft shapes, and described video of human-looking dead beings at a retrieval site, plus General McCasland's disappearance.
1:09:58
Greys, reptilians and NHI conflict
Grusch relayed secondhand accounts of live reptilians and dead greys at a crash site and documented apparent conflict between non-human intelligences.
1:20:47
Nuclear tests and ancient mysteries
The two discussed VASCO plate anomalies after nuclear tests, the Labyrinth of Hawara, Egyptian pyramids, the Book of Enoch and the Book of Ezekiel.
1:39:32
Telepathy, AI and Peruvian anomalies
Grusch speculated on telepathic countermeasures and AI-driven disclosure, and the two looked at Peruvian mummies, elongated skulls and other anomalies.
1:54:53
Blue Book, Nixon and the Clinton-era effort
Grusch cited the Harry Turner document on Blue Book, a Nixon-era assessment, and an alleged pre-2016 popularization effort involving Tom DeLonge.
2:05:45
Killed reptilians, ocean bases and closing thoughts
Grusch described reptilians killing U.S. personnel, large underwater bases, denied the Matthew Brown allegations, and gave his disclosure timeline.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

David Grusch
Grusch claims he uncovered a criminal enterprise operating out of a particular government agency.
“I ended up bumping into a criminal enterprise run out of a particular agency”
Listen from 5:57 · Unidentified flying objects and government disclosure
David Grusch
Grusch says Senate staff were told in a classified meeting that specific named individuals had wanted to kill him.
“these couple individuals and they named the individuals. I'm like, I know who they are. They wanted to kill you”
Listen from 16:13 · Unidentified flying objects and government disclosure
David Grusch Prediction · due Jan 2029
Grusch predicts that everything he testified about will be officially released before Trump's term ends.
“So I believe before Trump's term ends that it's all going to come out”
Listen from 23:39 · Unidentified flying objects and government disclosure
David Grusch
Grusch asserts the U.S. has recovered intact and semi-intact craft.
“We've recovered material, a.k.a. intact, semi-intact craft”
Listen from 23:56 · UFO crash retrieval programs
David Grusch
Grusch says technology derived from recovered material came mostly through inspiration rather than direct copying.
“And so a lot of it was garnered via inspiration, not one-to-one. In some cases, I suppose we did, but like that's been most of it”
Listen from 25:23 · UFO crash retrieval programs
Joe Rogan
Rogan says Stephen Miller told him at the White House UFC event that UFO information would come out.
“at the UFC event at the White House, and he told me that it's going to come out”
Listen from 28:11 · Unidentified flying objects and government disclosure
David Grusch
Grusch says Article 3 of the 1971 U.S.–Soviet Accident Measures Agreement addresses unidentified objects.
“you'll see Article 3 of the treaty talks about UAP”
Listen from 36:41 · Accident Measures Agreement
David Grusch
Grusch argues the main reason against disclosure was the government's potential legal liability to defense contractors.
“the government would be liable for who fucking knows, billions of dollars worth of monies that they spent on this to these contractor partners”
Listen from 47:16 · Unidentified flying objects and government disclosure
David Grusch
Grusch supports an amnesty process modeled on South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
“I believe in amnesty, but I think we need to do it like Truth and Reconciliation Commission, which was in post-apartheid South Africa in the 90s”
Listen from 50:10 · Unidentified flying objects and government disclosure
David Grusch
Grusch says he independently verified video of dead beings over years to rule out deception.
“I sat on that stuff for like years until I felt comfortable with that not being some sort of limited hangout or deception activity”
Listen from 59:55 · UFO crash retrieval programs
David Grusch
Grusch notes General McCasland disappeared within a week of Trump's UAP declassification order.
“General McCaslin, who disappeared within a week of Trump giving the declassification order on UAP in February 2026”
Listen from 1:00:56 · Disappearance of William Neil McCasland
Joe Rogan
Rogan argues it is wrong for unelected officials and contractors to hold UAP information the public lacks.
“There shouldn't be a group of unelected bureaucrats and defense contractors that have access to this stuff and the general public doesn't”
Listen from 1:12:44 · Unidentified flying objects and government disclosure
David Grusch
Grusch praises the VASCO archival plate research while saying it cannot conclusively prove UAP.
“It's hard to make an exact conclusion if it's UAP, but it's really great original scholarship, and I applaud her for doing that”
Listen from 1:22:15 · VASCO project
Linked moment · 1:33:25Skip to 1:33:25 using a listen link in the info box.
Joe Rogan
Rogan suggests biblical civilization may have been a recreation of an earlier civilization destroyed in a cataclysm.
“the civilization that was writing the Bible was a recreation of civilization that had been destroyed in a cataclysm”
Listen from 1:33:25 · Book of Ezekiel
David Grusch
Grusch warns that artificial superintelligence could reveal the UAP secret before the government does.
“I bet artificial superintelligence could disclose before the federal government if we're not careful”
Listen from 1:43:34 · Artificial intelligence
David Grusch
Grusch cites Harry Turner's Australian intelligence document as concluding Blue Book was a facade.
“Blue Book was a facade. The Air Force was fucking really concerned about this”
Listen from 1:59:51 · Project Blue Book
David Grusch
Grusch alleges a pre-2016 effort using Tom DeLonge was meant to prepare the public for disclosure under Hillary Clinton.
“There was an inside job to prep the battle space for Hillary”
Listen from 2:03:15 · To the Stars Academy of Arts and Science
David Grusch
Grusch says reptilian beings at a crash site posed a threat and U.S. personnel were hurt and killed.
“it just posed a threat and, you know, U.S. personnel started, you know, getting hurt and dying”
Listen from 2:08:53 · UFO crash retrieval programs
David Grusch
Grusch claims there is a large non-human base of operations underwater in certain locations.
“There's clearly some sort of base of operations in certain locations. It's large. Don't know when it got there”
Listen from 2:19:11 · UFO crash retrieval programs
David Grusch
Grusch denies involvement with Matthew Brown's account, saying he first spoke with him in 2024 after leaving the intelligence community.
“I met Matt or talked to him for the first time in like 2024, well after I left the intelligence community”
Listen from 2:22:15
David Grusch
Grusch advises the administration to make a threshold disclosure at least six months before the next election.
“if I were advising the president and if the team's listening, I would do it at least six months before the election”
Listen from 2:26:32 · Unidentified flying objects and government disclosure

People

In the conversation

Joe RoganAmerican comedian and host of The Joe Rogan Experience
David GruschFormer intelligence official whose House Oversight testimony Gaetz cites

Discussed

Eric BurlisonMissouri congressman and UAP disclosure advocate
Donald TrumpPresident of the United States whose conduct of the Iran war is the episode's main subject
Stephen MillerWhite House deputy chief of staff and architect of the administration's immigration agenda
Tim BurchettU.S. Representative who commented on classified UFO briefings
William Neil McCaslandRetired Air Force general who disappeared in Albuquerque in 2026
Tom DeLongeMusician and co-founder of To The Stars Academy of Arts and Science
Matthew BrownUAP whistleblower subject of online claims involving Grusch
Bob LazarAmerican scientist and businessman who claims to have worked on recovered extraterrestrial craft at a site called S4 near Area 51
Robert BigelowBusinessman who funded Radin's UNLV lab
Stephen HadleyFormer U.S. National Security Advisor alleged to have sponsored a 2004 disclosure exercise
Harry TurnerAustralian intelligence official who wrote a 1971 document on UFOs
J. Allen HynekAstronomer and Project Blue Book consultant turned UFO researcher
Edward RuppeltFormer head of Project Blue Book
Hillary ClintonFormer U.S. secretary of state, subject of a viral photo discussed by the hosts
John PodestaClinton campaign chairman linked to UFO disclosure advocacy
Dick CheneyU.S. Vice President and former Halliburton CEO, whom Blaber and Ryan link to war logistics contracting
Jackie GleasonComedian rumored to have been shown a UFO by Richard Nixon
Beatriz VillarroelAstronomer behind the VASCO archival plate research
Matthew SullivanAir Force friend and source of Grusch who died mysteriously

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From the publisher

David Grusch is a former United States Air Force intelligence officer, former representative of the National Reconnaissance Office to the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force, and former co-lead for Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena analysis at the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency. Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on October 1, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Society & Culture·Government·History