#875: The Random Show — Tim and Kevin Talk Retreats, Mortality, AI Predictions, Supplements, Rock Climbing at (Almost) 50, and Not Waiting for “Someday”
Episode of The Tim Ferriss Show · July 16, 2026 · 1 h 58 min
Tim Ferriss and Kevin Rose discuss Zen retreats, grief and mortality, rock climbing goals, supplements, psychedelic research, AI predictions and investing.
Summary
In this edition of The Random Show, Tim Ferriss and Kevin Rose opened over tequila with reflections on aging and mortality. Rose recounted a late-night emergency with his 15-year-old dog Toaster and the death of their mutual friend and technology writer Om Malik, which he learned about while on a five-day silent Zen retreat. Rose argued that grief is simply love manifested as sorrow, while Ferriss credited Matt Mullenweg for an Antarctica trip that let him bond with Malik and for introducing him to Tim Urban's essay "The Tail End," which prompted him to take family trips before his parents' mobility declined.
Rose described working with the koan "Mu" on retreat and a brief insight of "nothing lacking," and both men promoted The Way, the meditation app guided by Henry Shukman in which they are both involved. Rose said he wanted to stop saying "one day" about unpursued interests as he approaches 50; Ferriss named multi-pitch rock climbing in Yosemite as his current goal despite a fear of heights, describing finger-strength tools such as the Nug and Emil Abrahamsson's hang protocol.
The pair then covered health and supplements: A2 whey protein, Maui Nui venison sticks and the nitrate question, exogenous ketones containing 1,3-butanediol and their apparent short-term effect on verbal fluidity in relatives with dementia, the Kaiser M3i bike and Norwegian 4x4 VO2 max training, and a JAMA trial of MM120 (LSD) for generalized anxiety disorder. Both discussed caring for parents with dementia and the ethics of giving psychedelics to people who cannot consent.
The second half turned to technology. Rose described automating his Ubiquiti home cameras with AI and prototyping a "values cards" and contractual-bond app built on what he called "dark information." Ferriss described using Claude Code for a 20-year retrospective on his angel investing, asking LLMs open-ended questions about his next five years, and tools like Wispr Flow and Shokz headsets. Rose predicted a "big three" of Google, Anthropic and OpenAI, argued Google's chip architecture bets on continuously self-improving models, and both advised letting winners run and investing in products one already uses.
Chapters
- 0:24
Tequila, aging and alcohol
Ferriss and Rose toast and joke about processing alcohol less well with age and past ketamine references.
- 2:18
Toaster's health scare
Rose recounts rushing his 15-year-old dog to an emergency vet and reflects on attachment to pets.
- 5:58
Losing Om Malik and mortality
Rose learns of Om Malik's death on retreat; both discuss grief as love, Antarctica with Matt Mullenweg, and Tim Urban's 'The Tail End'.
- 14:20
Zen retreat and the koan 'Mu'
Rose describes five days of silence, an audience with the Roshi, and a micro-insight of 'nothing lacking'; Ferriss discusses The Way app and Henry Shukman's guidance.
- 25:40
Stop saying 'one day': rock climbing goals
Rose talks about pursuing long-deferred interests as he nears 50 while Ferriss names multi-pitch climbing in Yosemite as his goal.
- 29:22
Grip training, hangboards and fear of heights
They discuss Michael Eckert's finger-strength course, the Nug, Abrahangs, travel training kits and Free Solo.
- 39:22
Protein, venison and processed meat
Rose introduces A2 protein from Pioneer Pastures and challenges Ferriss on nitrates in meat sticks; Ferriss defends minimally processed Maui Nui venison.
- 43:50
Exogenous ketones and dementia
Ferriss explains 1,3-butanediol concerns and reports ketones improving verbal fluidity in relatives with dementia; Rose discusses moving his mother to a new care home.
- 48:29
Training not to die: bikes, saunas and 'something beats nothing'
Ferriss describes the Kaiser M3i and Norwegian 4x4 protocol; both argue consistency beats perfection.
- 53:05
MM120 anxiety trial and psychedelics for dementia
Ferriss walks through a JAMA trial of MM120 for generalized anxiety disorder and case reports of psilocybin and LSD in dementia, raising consent ethics.
- 1:01:51
AI in the home and investment autopsies
Rose describes AI-automated home cameras; Ferriss discusses a 20-year retrospective of his angel investing and asking LLMs open-ended life questions.
- 1:17:38
Values cards, bonds and 360 reviews
Rose outlines a prototype app for values and contractual bonds built on 'dark information'; both recall painful anonymous 360 reviews.
- 1:24:50
Recording rig and dictation tools
Ferriss recommends Wispr Flow, Shokz bone-conduction headsets and a Sennheiser lav mic for travel recording.
- 1:29:32
AI landscape predictions
Rose argues Google, Anthropic and OpenAI are the big three, explains Google's chip bet on continuous learning, and discusses China's open-source models.
- 1:41:14
Investing lessons: let winners run
They discuss SpaceX, Waymo, buying the company rather than the product, and Ferriss's first stock, Pixar.
Key points
What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.
- Kevin Rose
Rose argued that the pain of losing someone is a direct consequence of the love felt for them.
“But I realized that that gap... is just love at the end of the day because i wouldn't have it unless i loved this man so much”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss said Tim Urban's essay 'The Tail End' showed that most time with one's parents is spent before leaving for college, which prompted him to organize family trips.
“You've spent something like 90, 95% of the total hours you will ever spend with your parents by the time you graduate from high school”
- Kevin Rose
Rose described a brief retreat insight in which nothing felt lacking and nothing could be added or removed.
“I had a sense of nothing lacking”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss said short twice-daily meditation sessions deliver substantial benefit without requiring a week-long retreat.
“you don't have to do a week-long meditation retreat. If you're just doing 10 minutes twice a day, and I do think there's some alchemy to twice a day”
- Kevin Rose
Rose said he wants to stop deferring long-held interests with the phrase 'one day' as he approaches 50.
“I want to stop bullshitting myself and stop saying like, Hey, one day, one day I'll get into Japanese woodworking”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss said his current physical goal is multi-pitch climbing in Yosemite, enabled by a surgically repaired elbow.
“I was always for at least the last 15 years limited by my right elbow, which I had surgically repaired. So it's ready to go. And I want to do some multi-pitch stuff in Yosemite”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss said training merely to avoid dying is not motivating for him and he prefers goals with deadlines.
“training to not die sooner than is necessary is not sufficient for me i'm just like that's such a depressing un-invigorating goal”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss said seeing climbers in their 60s and 70s at gyms, rather than teenage prodigies, inspired him to take climbing seriously.
“It was the people in their 60s and 70s who were climbing every day that inspired me to want to take this more seriously”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss said he uses shelf life as a heuristic for whether a meat product is minimally processed.
“if it's ultra processed and the shelf life is like three years, I would raise an eyebrow and probably hit pause”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss said 1,3-butanediol in exogenous ketones may carry liver toxicity concerns and noted many critics sell competing ketone salts.
“a lot of the people who are putting forth that hypothesis or claiming that it's true are selling their own ketone salts”
Linked moment · 45:42Skip to 45:42 using a listen link in the info box.
Tim FerrissFerriss reported that relatives with dementia given exogenous ketones became markedly more verbally fluent within about twenty minutes.
“I've given it to relatives with dementia and within 20 minutes, their sentences have like five X in length and they're more acute verbally”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss said data suggest five to six months of thrice-weekly Norwegian 4x4 training produces brain volume changes lasting up to five years.
“if you do five to six months of gutting it out three times a week, the results... Holy shit. The dividends pay off for, it seems, up to or possibly beyond five years”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss said the MM120 trial showed dose-dependent improvement in anxiety scores with 100 micrograms appearing to be the minimum effective dose.
“it seems like at least according to the data in this study, the minimum effective dose would be 100 micrograms”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss raised the ethical problem of administering hallucinogens to people who cannot give consent.
“What is ethical to use as treatment in someone who cannot give consent?”
- Kevin Rose
Rose said terminal lucidity in people with advanced Alzheimer's raises questions about whether cognition is fully localized in the brain.
“there's these people with like full blown entanglements in their brain, full on, you know, the Alzheimer's for like a decade. And then they become completely lucid. Where is that coming from?”
- Kevin Rose
Rose said cheap consumer camera systems plus APIs now let anyone build AI-driven home automation, including license-plate gate opening.
“I programmed it. So when it sees the license plate on my car, it automatically knows to open the gate because it knows it's me”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss said he values investing as an objective scorecard of his own thinking rather than as accumulation.
“What's fun about investing to me is it's a way to scorecard your thinking and decision-making”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss argued AI's main effect so far has been limited because most tasks being automated were not worth doing.
“I would say that the honest answer is not that much because most shit isn't worth doing in the first place”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss said seeing LLMs produce in 30 seconds what would take him 30 hours drains his motivation to write.
“what they can do in 30 seconds is what would take me 30 hours and I'm just like fuck It really drains the motivation for me to put in those 30 hours”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss recommended asking an LLM open-ended personal questions, such as what to pursue over the next five years, and said the answers were outstanding.
“when you ask it open-ended personal questions in the way that you would ask a close friend, what do you think are three to five creative ways I might explore things professionally in the next five years?”
- Kevin Rose
Rose predicted the AI field will be dominated by three players: Google, Anthropic and OpenAI.
“It's a big three. It's three players. Okay. It's Google, Anthropic, and OpenAI”
- Kevin Rose
Rose argued Google's unusual chip architecture is a bet on continuously self-improving models rather than discrete model releases.
“What Google is betting with this high throughput kind of wide memory architecture is the future is continuous learning”
- Kevin Rose
Rose said Meta has strong assets but lacks the talent to compete with the leading AI labs.
“Meta, I just don't think they're going to make it, man. Listen, they have great businesses. Instagram is phenomenal”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss said the main lesson from his 20-year investing retrospective is to let winners run as long as possible.
“the takeaway is you've got to let your winners run as long as possible”
- Kevin Rose
Rose advised that people should consider investing in companies whose products they love rather than only buying the products.
“you find something that you love and you buy said object when you should actually buy the company”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss said he tries to invest in products he personally uses every day rather than following elaborate theses.
“i just try to invest in stuff that i will use every day”
- Kevin Rose
Rose said relaunched Digg has grown from about 20,000 weekly users to close to 500,000.
“We've got like, we went from 20,000 people a week using it to now we've close to 500,000”
- Tim Ferriss
Ferriss reported that his all-format book sales have declined sharply in successive years since ChatGPT's release.
“you see a slip by negative 5%. Then you see a slip by like, I'm making up these numbers, but they're close, negative 28%. Then it's like negative 49%”
People
In the conversation
- Tim FerrissAmerican author, podcaster and investor, host of The Tim Ferriss Show
- Kevin RoseAmerican technology entrepreneur and investor, founder of Digg and co-host of The Random Show
Discussed
- Om MalikTechnology writer, blogger and venture investor who died shortly before recording
- Matt MullenwegFounder of Automattic and WordPress; organized the Antarctica trip Ferriss described
- Tim UrbanWriter behind the blog Wait But Why, author of the essay 'The Tail End'
- Henry ShukmanZen teacher and guide of the meditation app The Way
- Sam HarrisAuthor and neuroscientist whose audio piece 'The Last Time' Ferriss cited
- Michael EckertMultiple-time pull-up world champion known for grip and calisthenics training
- Emil AbrahamssonClimber known on YouTube for the 'Abrahangs' finger-strength protocol
- Joe AbercrombieFantasy author of The Blade Itself
- Tommy WoodNeuroscientist who advised Ferriss on VO2 max training
- Chris WilliamsonBritish podcaster and host of Modern Wisdom
- Elon MuskEntrepreneur behind X, xAI and SpaceX, discussed in AI competition
- Warren BuffettAmerican investor and chairman of Berkshire Hathaway
- Sergey BrinGoogle co-founder who Rose said toured him through Google X
- Bill MarisFounding partner of Google Ventures
- Alon LeeCo-founder of Exploding Kittens who recommended Ferriss his headset
- Steve JobsCo-founder of Apple
- David PragerFriend of Rose cited in a Tesla purchase-versus-investment anecdote
Topics
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From the publisher
In this edition of The Random Show, Tim Ferriss and Kevin Rose reunite over tequila to talk Zen retreats, learning to rock climb at (almost) 50, mortality and grief, why you should stop saying "one day," AI predictions , and much more. Please enjoy! This episode is brought to you by: Incogni, which removes your personal data from the web, helping shield you from fraud, scams, and identity theft: Incogni.com/Tim (use code TIM at checkout and get 60% off an annual plan) Wealthfront high-yield cash account: Wealthfront.com/Tim New clients get 3.30% base APY from program banks + additional 0.75% boost for 3 months on your uninvested cash (max $150k balance). Terms and conditions apply. The Cash Account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC (“WFB”) member FINRA/SIPC, not a bank. The base APY as of 1/30/26 is representative, can change, and requires no minimum. Tim Ferriss, a non-client, receives compensation from WFB for advertising and holds a non-controlling equity interest in the corporate parent of WFB, which creates a conflict of interest. Individual experiences and outcomes will differ. Instant withdrawals may be limited by your receiving firm and other factors. Investment advisory services provided by Wealthfront Advisers LLC, an SEC-registered investment adviser. Securities investments: not bank deposits, not bank-guaranteed or FDIC-insured, and may lose value. Timestamps [00:00:00] Start. [00:00:24] A tequila toast, and getting "taxed" by alcohol as you age. [00:02:18] Toaster at 15: a late-night health scare. [00:06:01] Losing Om Malik, and finding out on retreat. [00:08:03] Matt Mullenweg, Antarctica, and gratitude. [00:09:34] Coming to terms with our limited time on Earth. [00:14:37] Five days of silence and the koan "Mu." [00:15:20] Kevin's micro-insight and a plug for The Way. [00:27:25] Rock climbing after 40, and a Yosemite goal. [00:29:18] Michael Eckert and finger-strength training. [00:30:40] The Nug, Abrahangs, and a travel training kit. [00:32:57] Fr…
Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 27, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.