#882: How to Teach a 3-Year-Old to Read and Rethinking Education — Tim Coaches Niels Hoven of Mentava

Episode of The Tim Ferriss Show · September 10, 2026 · 2 h 14 min

Tim Ferriss runs a live coaching session with Mentava founder Niels Hoven on positioning, pricing, referrals, and marketing for his early-literacy app for preschoolers.

Summary

This episode was an unscripted working session in which Tim Ferriss, an early investor in Mentava, coached founder and CEO Niels Hoven on the company's messaging and growth. Hoven described Mentava as software that lets kids learn as fast as they are capable, starting with an early-literacy product that brings preschoolers to a second-grade reading level. He attributed its effectiveness to an optimized phonics curriculum and motivation design borrowed from games, and recounted how he did independent math study as a child and how his own son finished eighth-grade math in third grade.

Ferriss line-edited Hoven's bio and website copy, arguing that terms like "unusually fast learners" and the "remove the ceiling" tagline confused readers and narrowed the market. He suggested leading with parent testimonials, adding a two-minute readiness quiz on the website, proactively following up with families whose children failed the readiness check, and selling parents relief from nagging rather than just speed. Hoven explained the $500-a-month price, school pilots, a discounted rate in exchange for weekly videos, and a referral incentive that produced zero referrals, which he attributed to wealthy customers' social discomfort about the cost.

The pair also discussed the long-running debate over phonics in schools, with Hoven arguing teachers were victims of their training, and Ferriss cautioning that culture-war arguments on X could frame Mentava against teachers. Ferriss drew on his book launches for The 4-Hour Workweek and The 4-Hour Chef to advocate uncrowded channels, in-person message workshopping, cheap split-testing via services like PickFu, and targeting a narrow initial audience, suggesting immigrant communities such as The Indus Entrepreneurs. Hoven closed by urging parents never to feel guilty for advocating for their children.

Chapters

  1. 0:31

    What Mentava is

    Hoven explains Mentava's early-literacy software and shares stories of toddlers learning to read.

  2. 7:04

    Origins and motivation design

    Hoven recounts building Mentava during the pandemic and explains its curriculum and game-inspired motivation design.

  3. 11:54

    Rewriting the bio

    Ferriss line-edits Hoven's bio and critiques the company's positioning language.

  4. 20:54

    The core problem and own-pace learning

    Hoven describes marketing challenges and his belief in public schools supplemented by self-paced study.

  5. 28:58

    Readiness checks and failed trials

    Using an investor's feedback, they discuss the dog-fish sequencing test and the lack of follow-up with unready families.

  6. 34:48

    Pricing, schools, and selling relief

    They cover the $500 monthly price, free school pilots, video-for-discount scholarships, and framing value around less nagging.

  7. 55:05

    Channels, investor updates, and the phonics war

    Ferriss advises putting asks atop investor updates, and Hoven explains X and word of mouth as top channels and the phonics debate.

  8. 1:01:10

    Referrals and word of mouth

    Hoven describes a failed $1,000 referral incentive and Ferriss proposes capped, better-timed incentives.

  9. 1:08:04

    Testimonials and website mockups

    Ferriss recommends leading with testimonials and walks through AI-generated homepage mockups.

  10. 1:26:11

    Who you're for and uncrowded channels

    Ferriss draws on his book launches to argue for clear audience definition, uncrowded channels, and live workshopping of messaging.

  11. 1:42:04

    Testing and competition

    Ferriss describes cheap split-testing via PickFu and they briefly discuss Alpha School and competitors.

  12. 1:48:39

    Reaching unaware parents and closing

    They discuss shareable readiness tests, targeting immigrant communities through TiE, and Hoven's closing advice to parents.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven describes Mentava as software that lets children learn at their own capacity rather than an age-assigned pace.

    “software that is designed to let kids learn as fast as they're capable of learning instead of just at the pace assigned to their age”

    Listen from 1:39 · Mentava

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven argues that teaching reading is a solved problem based on letter sounds and blending.

    “reading and math are both basically solved problems. We know how to teach reading. You teach kids letter sounds and then you teach them to blend them together”

    Listen from 8:51 · Phonics

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven frames motivation design as either increasing rewards or lowering the effort required.

    “you can either increase the size of the reward on the other side or you can lower the hoop”

    Listen from 10:56 · Motivation design in educational software

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven says he supports public schools and wants children to self-pace within them rather than in parallel systems.

    “I actually really believe in the institution of public schools. I went to public schools. My children go to public schools”

    Listen from 27:32 · Accelerated learning

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven reports that his son, given independent study during math class, completed eighth-grade math in third grade.

    “And he finished eighth grade math while he was in third grade”

    Listen from 28:48 · Accelerated learning

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven explains that children can learn letter sounds well before they are developmentally able to blend them into words.

    “kids are able to learn letters and letter sounds quite a bit earlier than actually being able to blend those sounds together and be able to read”

    Listen from 32:57 · Early childhood literacy

  • Tim Ferriss

    Ferriss recounts a successful app that gives free access to anyone who emails explaining they cannot afford it, with very low fraud.

    “if you can't afford it, send an email to this email address, explain why, and chances are you'll get it for free”

    Listen from 37:01 · Pricing strategy

  • Tim Ferriss

    Ferriss argues that culture-war engagement forces readers to take sides rather than imagining their own child using the product.

    “jumping into the culture war, even if it gets a lot of views, in a sense forces readers to pick a side instead of picturing their own child”

    Listen from 46:48 · Brand positioning

  • Tim Ferriss

    Ferriss warns startups against exaggeration because one falsified claim undermines all others.

    “if one statement can be falsified and it's a casual statement, it's going to call into question every other claim you make”

    Listen from 52:24 · Brand positioning

  • Tim Ferriss

    Ferriss recommends founders place investor asks at the very top of update emails.

    “if you have investor asks, I would put them at the very top”

    Listen from 55:42

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven says X and word of mouth bring Mentava's best customers, while Meta ads produce cheap but unqualified leads.

    “I think our best customers are X and word of mouth”

    Listen from 57:20 · Mentava

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven claims that outside education schools, academia and cognitive science agree phonics is the only way to teach reading.

    “everybody in cognitive science, everybody in the rest of academia completely understands that phonics is the only way to teach reading”

    Listen from 59:50 · Phonics

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven argues teachers are victims of training that told them phonics discourages reading.

    “teachers are the victims here, too. They were told in teacher's college that phonics will turn kids off of reading”

    Listen from 1:00:58 · Phonics

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven reports that a two-sided free-month referral offer sent to all customers produced no referrals.

    “And we send out coupon codes to our entire customer base. And we got zero referrals”

    Listen from 1:03:09 · Referral marketing

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven attributes the failed referral incentive to wealthy customers valuing social considerations over a $500 bonus.

    “that $500 bonus that they get is not as valuable to them as the social currency”

    Listen from 1:03:38 · Referral marketing

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven describes Mentava's ideal customer as tech-employed first-generation immigrants aged 35 to 45 who value education.

    “age 35 to 45 first-generation immigrants who work at tech companies, who value education”

    Listen from 1:13:26 · Mentava

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven says leading with the high price has worked because customers read it as a signal of legitimacy.

    “we knew there's no way you could be a scam if you manage to charge that much money”

    Listen from 1:20:30 · Pricing strategy

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven says Mentava is generally not suitable for two-year-olds and suggests three and a half to five as the ideal range.

    “I'm very comfortable saying it's probably not for two-year-olds”

    Listen from 1:25:46 · Early childhood literacy

  • Tim Ferriss

    Ferriss advises pre-testing product designs with consumer panels rather than debuting untested on Amazon.

    “you don't really want Amazon to be your debutante ball where you show up in your new dress for the first time”

    Listen from 1:42:04 · PickFu

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven argues early reading gives parents leverage to demand more from schools that would hold children back.

    “being able to say, my kid can already read. You need to give them more opportunity is one of your strongest negotiating levers”

    Listen from 1:49:24 · Accelerated learning

  • Linked moment · 1:53:12Skip to 1:53:12 using a listen link in the info box.

    Tim Ferriss

    Ferriss suggests TiE as a warm, uncrowded audience of immigrant families invested in education.

    “if you want to talk about first or second generation immigrants who are all in on learning, it's about as warm an audience as I can imagine”

    Listen from 1:53:12 · The Indus Entrepreneurs

  • Niels Hoven

    Hoven urges parents to advocate for their children's education without guilt.

    “never, ever let anybody make you feel guilty for advocating for your kid”

    Listen from 2:08:40

People

In the conversation

  • Tim FerrissAmerican author, podcaster and investor, host of The Tim Ferriss Show
  • Niels HovenFounder and CEO of Mentava, an education software company for fast learners; former game designer at Pocket Gems

Discussed

  • Eric RiesAuthor of The Lean Startup and Mentava investor who introduced Ferriss to Hoven
  • Jake BecraftFounder of Strand Therapeutics whose child trialed Mentava
  • Joe LiemandtFounder of Trilogy Software and backer of Alpha School, an investor in Mentava
  • Robert ScobleTech blogger Ferriss met while promoting The 4-Hour Workweek
  • Joe RoganAmerican comedian and host of The Joe Rogan Experience
  • Lenny RachitskyProduct newsletter writer credited with tips on using AI for design

Topics

More from The Tim Ferriss Show

From the publisher

This episode is a bit different. It's a live, unscripted working session with a founder, and I've only done one other earlier this year. Niels Hoven ( @NielsHoven ) is the founder and CEO of Mentava , a company building software to support fast learners. Eager kids are dramatically underserved by today's education system, and Niels created Mentava to allow students to achieve their potential. Prior to Mentava, Niels worked at Cloudflare, ClassDojo, and Pocket Gems, where he ran the highest-grossing mobile game in the world in 2011. He has a graduate degree in electrical engineering from UC Berkeley. This episode is brought to you by: Fin powerful AI Agent for all your customer service: Fin.Ai/Tim Shopify global commerce platform, providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business: Shopify.com/Tim Wealthfront high-yield cash account: Wealthfront.com/Tim New clients get 3.30% base APY from program banks + additional 0.75% boost for 3 months on your uninvested cash (max $150k balance). Terms and conditions apply. The Cash Account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC (“WFB”) member FINRA/SIPC, not a bank. The base APY as of 1/30/26 is representative, can change, and requires no minimum. Tim Ferriss, a non-client, receives compensation from WFB for advertising and holds a non-controlling equity interest in the corporate parent of WFB, which creates a conflict of interest. Individual experiences and outcomes will differ. Instant withdrawals may be limited by your receiving firm and other factors. Investment advisory services provided by Wealthfront Advisers LLC, an SEC-registered investment adviser. Securities investments: not bank deposits, not bank-guaranteed or FDIC-insured, and may lose value. Timestamps: [00:00:00] Start. [00:01:32] What Mentava is—and the toddlers reading before age three. [00:08:31] Game design, slot-machine motivation, and lowering the hoop. [00:11:54] Tim's red pen: rewriting the bio and positioning. [00:16:59] The real problem…

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on October 24, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Entrepreneurship·Marketing·Parenting