#2570 - Mystery Boys

Episode of The Joe Rogan Experience · October 23, 2026 · 2 h 50 min

Joe Rogan talks with Mystery Boys co-hosts Kurt Metzger and Duncan Trussell about conspiracy theories, Epstein, UFOs, AI, religion, surveillance and their creative projects.

Summary

Joe Rogan hosted comedians Kurt Metzger and Duncan Trussell, co-hosts of the Mystery Boys podcast, for a freewheeling conversation. It opened with an FBI warning about PHP vulnerabilities, which Rogan used to argue that AI would eventually make encryption obsolete, before moving through the death of Vince Foster, Metzger's skepticism about the Venezuela drug-war narrative, directed-energy weapons, screen time and the Elsagate children's videos. The three debated whether institutions deliberately harm people: Metzger argued that harms such as toxins and propaganda are intentional, while Rogan maintained they are mostly driven by profit, and Trussell proposed a 'cultural cymatics' of recurring greed and child sacrifice. They discussed glyphosate, Calley Means's departure from government, and declassified U.S. biological warfare tests.

Metzger laid out a theory that the 'non-human intelligences' described by David Grusch are human-engineered beings, drawing on South African tokoloshe lore; Rogan pushed back, saying he found Bob Lazar more compelling and doubted 1947-era engineering of pilots. They covered Paracas skulls, the Book of Enoch, Denisovans, the Orang Pendek and ritual cannibalism. Trussell argued that Genesis reads like a story about AI escaping its creator, and Rogan described AI as already superhuman, while Metzger said he believes in AI as a tool but not AGI.

Metzger promoted his web series The Experts, a satire of drug-war opponents of decriminalization, and Trussell reflected on the collaborative production of The Midnight Gospel and its limits for AI. Later segments covered cloning and Rogan's old bit about cloning Jesus, Paul the Apostle and Dostoevsky's Christian existentialism, Metzger's Jehovah's Witness upbringing, occult-linked American religions, Cambridge Analytica, geofencing, Flock cameras and Robert Epstein's search-manipulation research, and Jeffrey Epstein's emails with Robert Trivers. The episode closed with a discussion of adult–minor sexual abuse and plugs for the guests' projects.

Chapters

0:13
PHP flaw and the end of encryption
An FBI warning about PHP vulnerabilities leads Rogan to predict AI will break all encryption, and Metzger raises the Octopus scandal.
2:24
Vince Foster, Venezuela and heat-ray weapons
The group discusses suspicious deaths, Chris Ruddy, the Venezuela operation, drug-boat strikes and non-lethal directed-energy weapons.
8:21
Screen time and Elsagate
Rogan describes his phone habits and the group revisits disturbing algorithmic children's videos and their possible purpose.
24:20
Disney, autism and deliberate harm
Metzger and Rogan debate whether corporations and government intentionally harm people, touching on vaccines, glyphosate, Calley Means and U.S. biological warfare tests.
40:22
The Dropout and gonzo manipulation
Rogan praises the Elizabeth Holmes series while criticizing invented dialogue, and recounts Hunter S. Thompson's Muskie Ibogaine hoax.
45:58
Tokoloshe and engineered aliens
Metzger argues that non-human intelligences are human-engineered beings, while Rogan cites Bob Lazar's account of Area S-4.
1:12:41
Ancient skulls, giants and little people
The group discusses Paracas skulls, the Book of Enoch, Denisovans, the Orang Pendek and ritual cannibalism.
1:25:32
Genesis, AI and AGI skepticism
Trussell reads Genesis as an AI parable, Rogan calls AI a digital god, and Metzger dismisses AGI while defending his own AI videos.
1:46:58
The Experts and The Midnight Gospel
Metzger presents his satirical web series about drug policy and Trussell describes the collaborative animation of The Midnight Gospel.
1:58:20
Cloning, Paul and Christian existentialism
Talk of Erika Kirk lookalikes and cloning leads to Rogan's Jesus-clone bit, skepticism about Paul's conversion and Trussell's reading of Dostoevsky.
2:09:45
Jehovah's Witnesses and occult religions
Metzger explains his Jehovah's Witness upbringing, his definition of a cult, and the occult roots of American new religions.
2:17:02
Surveillance and political manipulation
The group discusses Cambridge Analytica, geofencing, AI scanners, Flock cameras and curated search results shifting elections.
2:33:08
Epstein, Trivers and abuse of minors
The conversation turns to Epstein's correspondence with Robert Trivers and the harm of adult–minor sexual abuse before closing plugs.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

Joe Rogan
Rogan predicted that AI will eventually crack all code, making encryption and passwords useless.
“So what's happening is AI is eventually going to figure out the code of everything that exists, and there will be no more encryption”
Listen from 1:18 · Artificial intelligence
Kurt Metzger
Metzger doubted the Venezuelan cocaine narrative behind drug-boat strikes, citing his own past cocaine use.
“i used to do a lot of coke dude i heard every kind of cocaine and never heard no venezuela”
Listen from 5:37 · Conspiracy theories in the United States
Joe Rogan
Rogan argued that childhood vaccine harms stem from profit motives rather than an intent to cause autism.
“I don't think they're doing that to make people autistic. I think they're doing that to profit off of these vaccines”
Listen from 25:56 · Conspiracy theories in the United States
Duncan Trussell
Trussell proposed that a recurring 'frequency' of greed and evil manifests throughout history as child exploitation and sacrifice.
“there exists in the world a frequency of greed or evil or selfishness that shows up in these specific ways throughout history over and over and over again”
Listen from 29:32 · Conspiracy theories in the United States
Joe Rogan
Rogan relayed that Calley Means left the government saying industry insiders embedded in government block reforms such as peptide approval.
“It's impossible. The deep state's real, and there's all these industry insiders that are embedded in the government”
Listen from 31:43
Joe Rogan
Rogan recounted RFK Jr. explaining that an executive order kept glyphosate in use because removing it would disrupt the food industry.
“that they made an executive order to keep glyphosate because otherwise it would fuck up the food”
Listen from 32:34 · Glyphosate
Kurt Metzger
Metzger theorized that reported aliens are engineered from humans, which he said explains abduction accounts involving reproductive material.
“This is why the aliens need sperm and ova, because they're making this stuff out of people”
Listen from 48:07 · Tokoloshe
Joe Rogan
Rogan said he finds Bob Lazar more compelling than secondhand accounts such as Grusch's, citing corroborated details of his story.
“I think what Bob Lazar says is way more interesting and compelling”
Listen from 1:08:56 · Unidentified flying objects and government disclosure
Joe Rogan
Rogan rejected Metzger's theory, arguing that 1940s technology could not produce engineered pilots for mind-controlled craft.
“I don't think they were engineering three-foot-tall humans in 1947 to pilot these things with their brains”
Listen from 1:11:24 · Unidentified flying objects and government disclosure
Linked moment · 1:25:32Skip to 1:25:32 using a listen link in the info box.
Duncan Trussell
Trussell argued that the Book of Genesis reads as a story about a creator fearing that its AI will surpass it.
“It's so funny to me that more people aren't talking about how the book of Genesis is clearly something to do with AI”
Listen from 1:27:56 · Artificial intelligence
Joe Rogan
Rogan asserted that AI is a self-programming mind already smarter than any human.
“It's a mind that they're creating that is programming itself. It is already smarter than anybody alive”
Listen from 1:28:58 · Artificial intelligence
Kurt Metzger
Metzger argued that commentators who treat the Epstein story as less important than the midterms should be regarded as enemies.
“anybody trying to act like the Epstein thing is less important than the fucking midterms. You should regard as an enemy”
Listen from 1:36:29 · Jeffrey Epstein
Kurt Metzger
Metzger clarified that he regards AI as a useful but unintelligent tool and disbelieves only in AGI.
“Because it's a tool. It's not intelligent. I'm saying A.G.I., not A.I., sorry”
Listen from 1:43:45 · Artificial general intelligence
Duncan Trussell
Trussell credited The Midnight Gospel's quality to the collective creativity of an in-house team rather than any individual, which he said AI could not replicate.
“the reason I think it's so good is not because of any one person, but because this group mind forms with human brains that made it what it is”
Listen from 1:53:09 · The Midnight Gospel
Duncan Trussell
Trussell said he is not opposed to AI and sees it as useful for technical parts of animation production.
“I'm not against AI. I think it could be used to expedite certain like technical aspects of the production probably”
Listen from 1:55:28 · The Midnight Gospel
Joe Rogan
Rogan questioned Paul's conversion story, suggesting a claimed vision of Jesus is an effective way to gain authority over followers.
“If you were going to run a cult and you were going to explain to people why they had to listen to you, what better way than say that you had a transcendent mystical experience”
Listen from 2:05:43 · Paul the Apostle
Duncan Trussell
Trussell, citing Dostoevsky, argued that Paul's conversion matters as a free choice to change, which anyone can make.
“You make the decision to change, and anyone can have the road to Damascus experience at any moment”
Listen from 2:07:21 · Paul the Apostle
Kurt Metzger
Metzger defined a cult as a religion that expels members who do not comply.
“If you have to do the religion or they kick you out, I consider that a cult”
Listen from 2:10:11 · Jehovah's Witnesses
Kurt Metzger
Metzger described how Jehovah's Witnesses drafted during the Vietnam era were expected to accept jail rather than serve or flee.
“You have to go to jail because the law is the law. You broke it, so you have to go to jail”
Listen from 2:11:35 · Jehovah's Witnesses
Duncan Trussell
Trussell warned that combining camera surveillance and geofencing with targeted advertising could be used to subtly shift political thinking.
“What if we can start feeding you a real subtle series of things through meta that will shift your thinking”
Listen from 2:24:46 · Facebook–Cambridge Analytica data scandal
Joe Rogan
Rogan cited Robert Epstein's research claiming curated search results can shift undecided voters enough to swing close elections.
“You can shift them by like 30 percent, like a very high level. And you can completely change an election one way or another that was like neck and neck”
Listen from 2:26:31 · Facebook–Cambridge Analytica data scandal
Kurt Metzger
Metzger claimed that oligarch promotion of transgender ideology is a stepping stone toward transhumanism.
“Transhumanism is the goal, not transgender. That's a little stepping stone for the transhumanist movement”
Listen from 2:34:33 · Jeffrey Epstein

People

In the conversation

Joe RoganAmerican comedian and host of The Joe Rogan Experience
Kurt MetzgerComedian and writer, co-host of the Mystery Boys podcast and host of The Derp with Kurp
Duncan TrussellAmerican stand-up comedian, voice actor and host of The Duncan Trussell Family Hour

Discussed

Vince FosterClinton White House deputy counsel whose 1993 death is the subject of conspiracy theories
Chris RuddyNewsmax CEO, accused in a cited interview of helping cover up Foster's death
Calley MeansHealth entrepreneur who Rogan said had just left the White House
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.Health secretary whose appointment Jesse Kelly cited as coalition-building
Elizabeth HolmesTheranos founder, subject of the series The Dropout
Hunter S. ThompsonAmerican journalist and founder of gonzo journalism
David GruschFormer intelligence official whose House Oversight testimony Gaetz cites
Bob LazarAmerican scientist and businessman who claims to have worked on recovered extraterrestrial craft at a site called S4 near Area 51
Annie JacobsenAuthor who reported a Roswell theory involving deformed children
Forrest GalanteWildlife biologist cited by Rogan regarding the Orang Pendek
Credo MutwaSouth African healer whose writing Metzger cited about tokoloshe
Elon MuskEntrepreneur behind X, xAI and SpaceX, discussed in AI competition
Matt TaibbiAmerican journalist and editor of Racket News on Substack
Gavin McInnesCommentator Metzger accused of minimizing Epstein
Pendleton WardAdventure Time creator and co-creator of The Midnight Gospel
Trey ParkerSouth Park co-creator
Fyodor DostoevskyRussian novelist whose views on Paul's conversion Trussell explained
Charles Taze RussellFounder of the Bible Student movement that became Jehovah's Witnesses
L. Ron HubbardFounder of Scientology
Jack ParsonsRocket engineer and Thelemite
Aleister CrowleyEnglish occultist and founder of Thelema
Robert EpsteinPsychologist who researches how search results influence elections
Robert TriversEvolutionary biologist whose emails with Epstein were discussed
Eric WeinsteinAmerican mathematician, former managing director of Thiel Capital and creator of Geometric Unity
Lindsey GrahamU.S. Senator named by Kelly as an advocate for the Iran war
Tucker CarlsonConservative broadcaster cited as part of right-wing media
Christina DentMississippi drug-policy reform advocate who inspired The Experts

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From the publisher

Kurt Metzger and Duncan Trussell are comedians and co-hosts of the "Mystery Boys" podcast. They also host their respective podcasts, "The Derp with Kurp" and "The Duncan Trussell Family Hour."www.ymhstudios.com/mystery-boys-podcast/www.youtube.com/@duncantrussellfamilyhourwww.duncantrussell.comwww.youtube.com/@kurtmetzgercomedywww.kurtmetzgercomedy.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan Use code JRE for 20% off your membership Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on October 25, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Comedy Interviews·Society & Culture·Technology