Body Language Expert: 6 Psychological Tricks to Turn Awkwardness into Confidence

Episode of The Mel Robbins Podcast · September 26, 2026 · 1 h 23 min

Mel Robbins and behavioral researcher Vanessa Van Edwards discuss body language, energy management, likability, conversation starters, networking positioning, and the ABCD productivity exercise.

Summary

In this rebroadcast with a new introduction, Mel Robbins spoke with behavioral researcher Vanessa Van Edwards, founder of Science of People, about the habits of high achievers. Van Edwards distinguished social energy from work energy, argued that burnout is not a sign of success, and said ambivalent relationships and tasks drain people more than toxic ones. She recommended rating one's relationships and cited research by Van Sloan suggesting the most popular students were those who liked the most people, as well as studies on fake smiles and on the likability benefits of small mistakes.

Van Edwards then described nonverbal cues of confidence, including toe direction as a signal of attention, maximizing the distance between ears and shoulders, keeping arms away from the torso, choosing chairs with armrests, the steeple gesture, rubbing hands together to signal excitement, and keeping hands visible. She argued that checking a phone hunched over creates defeat posture and recommended holding it "up and out."

On verbal communication, she cited the community game versus Wall Street game study and research on achievement-oriented words, recommending purposeful calendar invite names and motivational self-talk. She advised replacing questions like "What do you do?" with "Working on anything exciting recently?", warned that "What's your story?" polarizes introverts and extroverts, and reported from her speed networking research that the entrance is the worst place to stand while the exit of the bar is the best.

The conversation concluded with Van Edwards's ABCD work exercise, in which Robbins listed her own strengths and weaknesses, followed by advice on end-of-day reflection, enjoying the process of goals rather than relying on "if-then" happiness, and having a personal quest.

Chapters

0:00
Introduction and high achievers
Robbins introduces Van Edwards and they discuss why high achievers' communication patterns matter and why burnout is not success.
5:56
Social energy, work energy, and ambivalence
Van Edwards explains the two types of energy and why ambivalent relationships and tasks are the most draining.
13:22
The Pygmalion effect and likability
Van Edwards describes using labels to set expectations and research showing likable people like more people.
19:08
Faking it and vulnerability
They discuss whether fake positivity works and why small mistakes and vulnerability increase likability.
24:01
Reading a room and posture cues
Van Edwards explains toe direction, the ear-to-shoulder distance, and how phone-checking posture undermines confidence.
33:25
Arms, chairs, and hand gestures
Van Edwards covers open arms, armrests, swivel chairs, the steeple, hand rubbing, and visible explanatory gestures.
42:09
Priming with words
Van Edwards discusses the community versus Wall Street game study, achievement words, calendar invites, and self-talk.
50:41
Better conversation starters
Van Edwards recommends breaking autopilot questions and shares speed networking data on which openers work.
56:18
Where to sit and stand
Van Edwards discusses performance contagion from seating, fear-sweat research, and the best and worst places to stand at events.
1:04:16
The ABCD work exercise
Van Edwards leads the alphabet work exercise and Robbins shares her own A, B, C, and D lists.
1:15:30
Evenings, goals, quests, and final words
Van Edwards advises end-of-day pauses, enjoying the process of goals, having a quest, and trying differently rather than harder.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards argues that burnout and busyness are not markers of success and that people should stop competing over who is busiest.
“Busyness and burnout is not a mark of success. So being burnt out just means you're saying yes to too much, you're doing too much”
Listen from 5:28 · Energy management and burnout
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards contends that ambivalent relationships drain more energy than either toxic or good ones.
“The relationships that are the most toxic are not the toxic relationships. They're actually the ambivalent relationships”
Listen from 9:25 · Energy management and burnout
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards recommends taking a break from seeing people one is unsure about to test whether one misses them.
“Those question marks, please stop seeing them. Just for a while. Do you miss them? Is your life different not seeing them?”
Listen from 10:35 · Energy management and burnout
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards cites a study of high schoolers finding the most popular students had the longest lists of people they liked, concluding likability is within one's control.
“he found that the most liked kids, the most popular kids, had the longest list of people they liked”
Listen from 13:29 · Likability
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards says faking positivity is not harmful but is less impactful, citing research that only genuine smiles improved observers' mood.
“I don't love you to be fake. It just makes you less impactful and influential. However, it doesn't have a detrimental effect on someone”
Listen from 20:47 · Likability
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards argues that vulnerability and small mistakes make people more likable than trying to appear perfect.
“In fact, vulnerability is one of the fastest ways to show likability”
Listen from 22:06 · Vulnerability
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards says people tend to point their toes toward the most important person in a room, revealing the boss.
“typically we point our toes towards the most important person in the room. That is because subconsciously our body is attuned to them”
Listen from 25:39 · Body language
Linked moment · 31:20Skip to 31:20 using a listen link in the info box.
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards explains that hunched shoulders are an evolutionary neck-protecting cue that signals danger to the brain and triggers awkwardness symptoms.
“If you do the opposite, you're telling your brain, we are not safe, which then makes you have more cortisol, which shuts down your thinking”
Listen from 31:20 · Body language
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards claims hunched phone-checking posture repeatedly puts people into defeat body language before important events.
“That is what everyone does when they check their phone. So accidentally, multiple times a day, you are putting yourself into defeat and shame body language”
Listen from 32:12 · Body language
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards says research found the steeple was rated the most charismatic hand gesture among leaders.
“They found there was one single gesture that people rated as the most charismatic. And it is, I call it the power pose for the hands”
Listen from 37:31 · Body language
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards argues people believe gestures over words because it is hard to lie with gestures.
“it is very hard to lie with gestures. We are very used to lying with our words”
Listen from 40:53 · Body language
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards cites a study in which labeling an identical game the 'Wall Street game' versus 'community game' halved profit sharing, and recommends purposeful calendar invite names.
“This is an incredible study because it shows that we can change someone's behavior with one single word”
Listen from 45:09 · Priming (psychology)
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards recommends replacing 'What do you do?' with questions like 'Working on anything exciting recently?' because the former boxes people in.
“That question is problematic for me because I think that what you're really asking is what are you worth? You're trying to put someone in a box”
Listen from 52:41 · Conversation starters
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards reports that in her speed networking experiment 'What's your story?' was polarizing, loved by extroverts and hated by introverts.
“So introverts and ambiverts hate this question”
Listen from 55:06 · Conversation starters
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards cites research finding that sitting within 25 feet of a high performer improves one's own performance by 15%.
“What they found was that if you sit within 25 feet of a high performer, you improve your own performance by 15%”
Listen from 56:51 · Emotional contagion
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards says her research found standing near the entrance produced the shortest conversations, while the exit of the bar produced the longest.
“the best place, this is where the longest conversations happens and the most business cards were exchanged, was right as people exit the bar”
Listen from 59:46 · Networking event positioning
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards advises optimizing one's A work while giving away B, C, and D work to others whose strengths differ.
“Your day, your entire day should be about optimizing your A work and giving away your B, C and D work”
Listen from 1:06:12 · ABCD work exercise
Mel Robbins
Robbins identifies ideation as her top strength and organizing, punctuality, and spreadsheets as her weaknesses.
“I am fantastic at giving ideas, ideation. Yes. Like if you want somebody to open a can of worms and like to start flying ideas”
Listen from 1:09:06 · ABCD work exercise
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards argues 'if-then' happiness goals set people up for burnout and recommends enjoying the process as much as the outcome.
“this is those if-then statements, which I think are a killer for burnout and a killer for happiness”
Listen from 1:16:51 · Goal setting
Vanessa Van Edwards
Van Edwards believes everyone should have a big quest because it provides meaning and purpose.
“I think if you don't have some kind of quest that you're working on right now, it's hard to find meaning”
Listen from 1:18:44 · Goal setting

People

In the conversation

Mel RobbinsAmerican author, podcast host and former lawyer who hosts The Mel Robbins Podcast
Vanessa Van EdwardsBehavioral researcher, bestselling author, and founder of Science of People

Discussed

Amy CuddySocial psychologist known for a TED Talk on power posing
Richard WisemanBritish psychologist cited for a study on mistakes and likability
Barbara WildResearcher cited for a study on genuine versus fake smiles and mood

Topics

Vanessa Van Edwards: The Conversation Habit That Makes Smart People Unlikable
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett · Sep 10, 2026 · 2 h 27 min
Behavioral researcher Vanessa Van Edwards tells Steven Bartlett about her three-level conversation framework, over-talking, self-narratives, five story archetypes and the cues behind charisma.
Human Lie Detector: The #1 Sign They’re Lying To You, Catch Liars Instantly! | Dr Leanne ten Brinke
The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett · Sep 7, 2026 · 1 h 44 min
Psychologist Leanne ten Brinke tells Steven Bartlett how to detect lies, explains the Dark Tetrad of personality traits, and offers rules for dealing with toxic people.
How to Master Any Conversation, Communicate With Confidence, and Deal With Difficult People
The Mel Robbins Podcast · Jul 6, 2026 · 1 h 9 min
Mel Robbins talks with mentalist Oz Pearlman about reading people, memorable first impressions, remembering names, overcoming rejection, spotting lies, and handling difficult people.
How to Eliminate Self-Doubt Forever & Build Unshakeable Confidence
The Mel Robbins Podcast · May 11, 2026 · 1 h 19 min
Mel Robbins talks with behavioral researcher Dr. Shadé Zahrai about her four-part framework—acceptance, agency, autonomy, adaptability—for overcoming self-doubt and building confidence.

From the publisher

Do you want to know how to talk to anyone with ease and confidence? In this episode, you will learn science-backed psychological tricks to be more successful, charismatic, and influential today. Today, Mel is bringing back one of the most tactical and empowering conversations ever on The Mel Robbins Podcast, with a brand-new introduction and new insights for right now. Vanessa Van Edwards is a behavioral researcher, bestselling author, and the founder of Science of People, a behavior lab that studies high achievers and the science of confidence, charisma, communication, and body language. She also teaches at Harvard University’s Professional and Executive Development program. Her research shows that your body is communicating before you ever say a word. And with a few simple changes, you can start showing up with more confidence immediately. You’ll learn exactly what to do with your shoulders, your hands, your voice, and even where you stand in a room so you feel less awkward and more powerful. You’ll also learn why some conversations feel effortless while others fall flat, how highly influential people communicate differently, and the small psychological cues that can help you connect with almost anyone. In this episode, you’ll learn: -The best place to stand at a networking event if you do not know anyone -Why standing near the entrance is one of the worst places to meet people -The conversation starter that never works -How where you sit at work can boost - or hurt - your productivity -The A-B-C-D exercise that can help you work with your strengths, protect your energy, and prevent burnout Whether you want to become a better leader, make new friends, land the job, or simply feel more confident in the moments that matter, you’ll leave this episode with practical tools you can start using immediately. For more resources related to today’s episode, click here for the podcast episode page. If you liked the episode, check out this one next: How to Talk to Difficult P…

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 28, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Self-Improvement·Social Sciences·Careers