MIDDLE MANAGERS ARE BACK?!
Episode of We Fixed It, You're Welcome · October 20, 2026 · 57 min
Aaron Wolpoff and Melissa Eaton talk with talent expert Abhijit Bhaduri about companies rehiring middle managers after AI-driven flattening, and the damage to trust.
Summary
Hosts Aaron Wolpoff and Melissa Eaton revisited a prior-season discussion about excess layers of middle management, noting that companies cut middle-tier roles and invested in AI only to find months later that they could not run effectively with just a top and a bottom. Eaton cited Korn Ferry data ranking critical thinking as the top skill hiring managers need and pointed to Meta, which she said flattened and then unflattened its structure in under a year and capped managers at 20 direct reports.
Guest Abhijit Bhaduri, a former Microsoft, PepsiCo and Colgate HR leader, argued that machines help with efficiency but effectiveness is a different matter, and that repeated restructures destroy trust and the discretionary effort that comes from a sense of belonging. He said fear lowers people's ability to learn, described layoffs by email as a form of ambiguous loss, and said experienced workers now feel like expensive lines on a balance sheet. Eaton described the many responsibilities of a call-center supervisor that AI task automation leaves out, a 'pipeline paradox' as entry-level roles vanish, and poor AI customer service lacking human escalation.
For fixes, Bhaduri distinguished change from transformation, urged companies to involve people alongside technology rollouts, and argued AI makes the incompetent average but cannot make the average excellent. Wolpoff proposed that employees build uniquely valuable paths and that companies receive tax credits or public recognition for being better employers. Eaton summarized priorities including separating AI tasks from roles, protecting the leadership pipeline as a strategic asset, embedding humans for escalation and QA, and explaining the why behind organizational change. Bhaduri closed by mentioning his forthcoming book on how AI is reshaping work identity.
Chapters
- 0:01
Middle managers are back
Wolpoff recaps last season's take on too many managers and introduces guest Abhijit Bhaduri, who describes his HR career.
- 2:40
Critical thinking and Meta's reversal
Eaton cites Korn Ferry skills data and Meta's flatten-then-unflatten move, questioning whether leadership work was simply left unowned.
- 7:02
Efficiency versus effectiveness
Bhaduri argues restructures driven by efficiency erode engagement, trust and discretionary effort.
- 16:26
What a manager actually does
Eaton details the coaching, escalation and administrative duties of call-center supervisors and the payroll pressures driving cuts.
- 19:42
Fear, learning and the employee's choices
Bhaduri says insecurity reduces learning ability, while the hosts discuss limited options for laid-off workers and LinkedIn layoff stories.
- 26:45
Ambiguous loss and survivors
Bhaduri compares abrupt layoffs to grief and describes how survivors feel undervalued as budget lines.
- 32:22
Shifting life goals and the pipeline paradox
Eaton discusses workers seeking meaning outside jobs and the threat to talent pipelines, with insurance as an example; Bhaduri notes effects on the next generation.
- 37:54
No one is admitting overcorrection
Wolpoff argues no company is apologizing or offering rehiring programs, and Eaton calls for applying AI thoughtfully to organizational design and customer escalation.
- 47:06
Bhaduri's prescription
Bhaduri distinguishes change from transformation and argues AI raises the floor to average while humans supply excellence.
- 51:37
The fix
Wolpoff proposes employee self-reinvention plus incentives for good employers, and Eaton lists key fixes including protecting the leadership pipeline.
- 57:28
Wrap-up and Bhaduri's book
Bhaduri mentions his upcoming book on AI and work identity and the hosts close the show.
Key points
What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.
- Melissa Eaton
Eaton argued Meta's reversal shows a company struggling to keep up with rapidly changing AI rather than making a single mistake.
“Meta flattened and unflattened in under a year. That's not a company that got it wrong once”
- Melissa Eaton
Eaton cited Korn Ferry data showing hiring managers rank critical thinking as the top skill they need, above AI skills.
“Korn Ferry just put out data showing 73% of hiring managers say critical thinking is the number one skill that they need right now”
- Aaron Wolpoff
Wolpoff cited brain studies suggesting people's thinking becomes passive when using AI.
“they look at people's brain patterns when they're using AI and they go into passive mode not active mode”
- Melissa Eaton
Eaton argued that removing managers leaves escalation responsibilities unowned rather than eliminated.
“you strip a manager out and you don't remove the escalation path you just leave it unowned”
- Abhijit Bhaduri
Bhaduri argued that trust is lost quickly but rebuilt slowly, making repeated restructures costly.
“So it takes you one act to lose trust, but many, many acts to build trust”
- Abhijit Bhaduri
Bhaduri argued that organizations restructuring for efficiency ignore the effects on their workforce.
“They are completely blind to the fact that organizations may do a lot of things in the name of efficiency”
- Abhijit Bhaduri
Bhaduri argued companies cannot embrace AI while neglecting employees.
“I mean, you can't be AI forward and employ backward”
- Melissa Eaton
Eaton, drawing on call-center experience, said around 12 customer service representatives per supervisor was a typical target because of coaching and escalation duties.
“how many CSRs per supervisor? 12 is about a good number, let's just say at one point, right?”
- Abhijit Bhaduri
Bhaduri argued that work, workers and the workplace must be redesigned together.
“Because work, worker and workplace all move in tandem. You can't change the way you work without changing the employee base”
- Abhijit Bhaduri
Bhaduri argued that people cannot learn new skills until they feel secure.
“until people feel secure enough to learn something, you will not be able to address this problem”
- Abhijit Bhaduri
Bhaduri said experienced employees now feel valued only as costs rather than for their experience.
“every experienced employee today feels that i it's not about my experience i'm just a very expensive line on the budget balance sheet”
- Melissa Eaton
Eaton argued companies have created a 'pipeline paradox' by turning their workforce into something like contract labor.
“there's this pipeline paradox in terms of you've now created almost this like contract workforce”
- Aaron Wolpoff
Wolpoff argued that no company or group of companies is admitting it overcorrected and offering to rehire laid-off workers.
“no company or coalition of companies is stepping up and saying baby i'm sorry whoops we made this we made a mistake”
- Melissa Eaton
Eaton argued that AI customer experience has barely improved over chat assistants of 15 years ago and needs human escalation.
“the customer experience with AI is just lacks to be fair it's the same as it was when i was doing it 15 years ago”
Listen from 40:43 · Customer service automation and human escalation
- Melissa Eaton
Eaton recommended that companies treat the leadership pipeline as a strategic asset rather than a line item.
“we really need to protect that leadership pipeline as a strategic asset”
- Abhijit Bhaduri
Bhaduri distinguished external change, which causes change fatigue, from internal transformation.
“change is what happens outside of you you know and which is what results in change fatigue”
- Abhijit Bhaduri
Bhaduri argued AI raises the incompetent to average but cannot make average work excellent, which is the space for humans.
“so the incompetent can become average but the average can never become excellent this is the human space that we need to acknowledge”
Linked moment · 52:37Skip to 52:37 using a listen link in the info box.
Aaron WolpoffWolpoff proposed tax credits and public recognition to reward companies that act as better employers.
“Let's give companies incentives, maybe tax credits, maybe some type of public recognition for being a better employer in this new paradigm shift landscape”
- Abhijit BhaduriPrediction · due Nov 2026
Bhaduri said his new book on how AI is reshaping work identity would be available on Amazon in about two weeks.
“this is you know is going to be available in another two weeks on Amazon”
People
In the conversation
- Aaron WolpoffCo-host of We Fixed It, You're Welcome
- Melissa EatonCo-host of We Fixed It, You're Welcome; customer experience leader with a background in call centers and insurance
- Abhijit BhaduriTalent management executive, author and keynote speaker; former general manager of global learning and development at Microsoft
Discussed
- Ron HetrickLabor economist at Lightcast and a previous guest on the show
- Scott AdamsCartoonist who created Dilbert, cited by Bhaduri on combining unique skills
Topics
Related episodes
#2569 - Bill ThompsonThe Joe Rogan Experience · Oct 21, 2026 · 2 h 53 min
Joe Rogan and Spartan Forge founder Bill Thompson discuss bow hunting, performing under pressure, military survival training, Jungian dreams, mastery, online bots and AI's future.
#2567 - Mariana van ZellerThe Joe Rogan Experience · Oct 16, 2026 · 2 h 30 min
Joe Rogan and journalist Mariana van Zeller discuss romance and pig-butchering scams, Meta's profits from scam ads, Mexican cartels, the opioid crisis and drug policy.
The Mattering Effect: Success and Mattering Are Not the Same Thing - John R. MilesProven Podcast · Oct 10, 2026 · 1 h 6 min
Charles Schwartz talks with former Navy officer and tech executive John R. Miles about leadership, trust, self-regulation, and the six signals of mattering at work.
Part Two: He Called Out to Nonhuman Intelligence at Lake Hartwell. Three Minutes Later, Navy SEALs Watched Two Objects Perform a Maneuver No Terrestrial Craft Could Make | Sean WebbMayim Bialik's Breakdown · Oct 7, 2026 · 52 min
Sean Webb tells Mayim Bialik and Jonathan Cohen about receiving information from nonhuman intelligence, AI emotions and alignment, and Jesus and quantum mechanics.
#2561 - LL Cool JThe Joe Rogan Experience · Oct 6, 2026 · 2 h 38 min
Joe Rogan and LL Cool J discuss the birth of hip-hop and Def Jam, discipline and mastery, martial arts, lost civilizations, time travel and artificial intelligence.
8 Ways Christians Open the Door to the DEMONIC (ft. Jonathan Pokluda) | Live Free with Josh HowertonLive Free with Josh Howerton · Oct 5, 2026 · 1 h 36 min
Pastor Carlos Erazo and Jonathan Pokluda discuss spiritual warfare, demonic footholds, occult practices, signs of revival, and a simple method for sharing the gospel.
From the publisher
Middle managers were supposed to be one of the layers companies could do without. Organizations flattened their org charts, invested heavily in AI, and removed roles in the name of efficiency. Now the question is whether they also removed the people who help teams think, learn, and work effectively. Abhijit Bhaduri joins Aaron Wolpoff and Melissa Eaton to unpack the management reset happening in an AI-enabled workplace. Drawing on his experience in talent management and global learning and development, he explains why efficiency and effectiveness are not the same, how repeated restructures erode trust, and why employees need enough security to learn new skills. The conversation explores the future of middle management, the entry-level talent pipeline, the human cost of treating employees as interchangeable line items, and why AI needs thoughtful human escalation when systems fail. The answer is not to stop using AI. It is to redesign work so technology and people can make each other more effective. In this episode: Why companies are reconsidering middle management Efficiency versus effectiveness How layoffs and reversals damage trust Why fear makes learning harder The role of managers in coaching, culture, and escalation What happens when entry-level jobs disappear Why AI needs human judgment and customer-service escalation How employers can invest in employees’ next roles Connect with Abhijit Bhaduri: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abhijitbhaduri/ Connect With the Show Subscribe for more deep dives where we fix big business problems with fresh perspectives. • Website – www.wefixeditpod.com • Follow us on: Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/wefixeditpod LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/company/wefixeditpod YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@WeFixedItPod If you liked this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your friends! Keep listening to find out how we fix companies and put them back better than we found them. Disclai…
Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on October 22, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.