Michelle Obama Upstages Barack, Euros Love America, and 2028 Rumblings, with Rich Lowry and Charles C.W. Cooke | Ep. 1341

Episode of The Megyn Kelly Show · June 17, 2026 · 1 h 41 min

Megyn Kelly, Rich Lowry and Charles C.W. Cooke discuss the Iran deal, 2028 GOP divisions, the Obama portrait, the UFC White House event, World Cup tourists and culture-war controversies.

Summary

Megyn Kelly hosted National Review's Rich Lowry and Charles C.W. Cooke. They opened with the memorandum of understanding ending U.S. hostilities with Iran. Lowry described it as a "skinny deal" that traded reopening the Strait of Hormuz for lifting the U.S. blockade and letting Iran sell oil, and he predicted it would not be resolved in 60 days. Cooke argued the U.S. had the military muscle but lacked the will, because Trump never made a public case for the war. Both said destroying Iran's nuclear infrastructure was the main achievement. Lowry called the killing of the Ayatollah a strategic mistake and rejected efforts by hawkish commentators such as Brian Kilmeade and Marc Thiessen to label it the "Vance peace deal."

Kelly criticized the "trust the president" mantra of pro-war conservatives who were now attacking the deal, and Cooke agreed that citizens should never hand over their judgment. Turning to 2028, Kelly predicted a non-interventionist populist candidate such as Tulsi Gabbard would emerge. Lowry argued that fear of Democrats would unify Republicans. Cooke questioned the neocon-versus-non-interventionist framing and allowed that a centrist spoiler was possible.

The panel mocked the new Obama Library portrait, which places Michelle Obama in front of Barack. Cooke said Michelle Obama seems to resent her husband. The discussion moved to the backlash against the UFC event at the White House, including statements from Sheryl Crow and Heather Cox Richardson, whom Cooke called a "disgraceful cynic." The hosts then covered a foiled drone-and-shooter plot against the event, and Cooke warned that drones will force a rethinking of security.

Later segments praised viral videos of European World Cup visitors enjoying America. Cooke said Europeans are fed relentlessly negative portrayals of the country, and Lowry lamented polling showing record-low national pride. Lowry and Cooke defended San Francisco Giants players who wrote a Genesis verse on Pride caps, describing the caps as compelled speech. The episode closed with criticism of Emily Ratajkowski's essay in The Cut about dating after divorce.

Chapters

  1. 0:00

    The Iran memorandum of understanding

    Kelly, Lowry and Cooke assess the Iran deal as a strait-for-blockade trade and a retreat from Trump's war aims.

  2. 18:05

    Hawks and the 'Vance peace deal'

    Clips of Brian Kilmeade prompt discussion of attempts to pin the deal on JD Vance and what it means for his 2028 prospects.

  3. 23:50

    Against 'trust the president'

    Kelly and Cooke criticize pro-war conservatives' loyalty mantra and argue citizens should judge each decision on its merits.

  4. 27:05

    GOP fractures and 2028

    The panel debates whether foreign-policy divisions could produce a populist insurgent or spoiler candidate, prompted by a Kamala Harris clip.

  5. 40:33

    The Obama Library portrait

    The hosts mock the portrait placing Michelle Obama front and center and discuss her public comments about Barack and race.

  6. 54:59

    UFC White House event backlash

    Sheryl Crow's statement and Heather Cox Richardson's lynching comparison are criticized, along with the Kennedy Center renaming.

  7. 1:07:09

    Foiled terror plot and drone threats

    The panel discusses the alleged drone-and-shooter plot against the UFC event and the security implications of drones.

  8. 1:13:35

    Europeans discover America at the World Cup

    Viral clips of European visitors lead to discussion of anti-American propaganda in Europe and declining American pride.

  9. 1:26:10

    Giants players' Bible verses on Pride caps

    Lowry and Cooke defend players who wrote Genesis 9 on rainbow caps and criticize Scott Wiener and compelled uniform messaging.

  10. 1:33:52

    Emily Ratajkowski's essay in The Cut

    The hosts criticize Ratajkowski's essay about promiscuity after divorce and joke about Callista Gingrich's hair.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

  • Rich LowryPartly true

    Lowry predicts the Iran memorandum will not be resolved within its 60-day window and will be extended.

    “Certainly this is not going to be resolved in 60 days. There's going to be an extension”

    Listen from 5:32 · United States war with Iran

  • Rich Lowry

    Lowry argues that winning the war would have required forcibly reopening the Strait of Hormuz, a risky operation Trump was unwilling to undertake.

    “Winning the war would have required at least freeing up the straight of her moves by force of arms which have been very complicated risky and protected operation”

    Listen from 6:05 · Strait of Hormuz

  • Charles C. W. Cooke

    Cooke argues the U.S. had the military capability but lacked the will to use it, because Trump was more hawkish than the public.

    “We do have the muscle, but we don't have the will to use that muscle. Donald Trump is on this issue a lot more hawkish than the American public is”

    Listen from 9:01 · United States war with Iran

  • Charles C. W. Cooke

    Cooke argues that an Obama-style deal combined with destroyed nuclear facilities leaves the U.S. better off than an Obama-style deal alone.

    “an Obama style Iran deal, plus having taken out their nuclear facilities is better than just an Obama style Iran deal”

    Listen from 10:30 · Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action

  • Rich Lowry

    Lowry calls killing the Ayatollah a key strategic mistake because it signaled an existential fight and prompted Iran to close the strait.

    “I think killing the Ayatollah, even though I was glad when it happened and I understand the temptation to take that shot, I think it was a key mistake”

    Listen from 11:23 · United States war with Iran

  • Megyn Kelly

    Kelly argues the war set a global precedent that waterways can be used as leverage.

    “The waterways are a leverage point in war in international relations”

    Listen from 14:58 · Strait of Hormuz

  • Linked moment · 15:32Skip to 15:32 using a listen link in the info box.

    Charles C. W. Cooke

    Cooke argues that American soldiers' deaths and gas prices are the only costs of the war that ordinary Americans care about.

    “there's only really two things that Americans would care about. They have a right to care about both of these things. One is losing American soldiers. Two is gas prices”

    Listen from 15:32 · Gas prices and inflation

  • Rich Lowry

    Lowry rejects the 'Vance peace deal' label, saying the deal exists because Trump wants it.

    “It's not the Vance peace deal. It's only happening because Trump is so desperate for the the peace deal”

    Listen from 21:55 · United States war with Iran

  • Charles C. W. Cooke

    Cooke argues that Americans should never adopt a 'trust the president' stance, given the country's tradition of mistrusting government.

    “So the phrase, you know, well, I'll just trust the president, that really should not leave the lips of anyone, especially an American, given our mistrust of government”

    Listen from 26:12

  • Megyn Kelly

    Kelly predicts a third type of candidate, likely running as a Republican and possibly Tulsi Gabbard, will emerge in the 2028 race.

    “I predict. There's going to be a third kind of candidate. And I think the person will probably run as a Republican. And I think it's going to be a Tulsi Gabbard”

    Listen from 29:44 · 2028 Republican Party presidential primaries

  • Rich Lowry

    Lowry argues that fear of unified Democratic control, and of the reforms it could bring, will unify Republicans behind their nominee.

    “there's going to be a serious attempt to eliminate the filibuster, impact the Supreme Court, and add states”

    Listen from 31:27 · 2028 Republican Party presidential primaries

  • Charles C. W. Cooke

    Cooke says a centrist candidate harnessing populist energy could plausibly spoil, though not win, an election.

    “it does seem possible to me that someone will come along in the middle, maybe using some of this populist energy and spoil an election”

    Listen from 34:55 · 2028 Republican Party presidential primaries

  • Rich Lowry

    Lowry calls the Obama portrait absurd and self-important, though he says it is technically well done.

    “But I think the portrait is absurd. Now, the likenesses are good”

    Listen from 42:54 · Obama Presidential Center portrait

  • Charles C. W. Cooke

    Cooke says Michelle Obama appears to resent her husband, citing her podcast remarks.

    “So I'm going to get in trouble for saying this, but she seems to hate him. Michelle Obama seems to hate Barack Obama”

    Listen from 44:30 · Obama Presidential Center portrait

  • Charles C. W. Cooke

    Cooke says Obama's election as the first Black president was the thing he liked most about him, an affirmation of the American creed.

    “i really do think it was a remarkable and beautiful thing that in 2008 a country that had had jim crow and slavery elected a black man as president”

    Listen from 48:54

  • Rich Lowry

    Lowry says the serious terror plot against the UFC event has been underappreciated.

    “There was no kidding, really serious, as far as we can tell, terror plot around this event to attack this organization”

    Listen from 1:00:24 · UFC White House event attack plot

  • Charles C. W. Cooke

    Cooke dismisses critics of the UFC event as crazy and calls Heather Cox Richardson a cynic for her lynching comparison.

    “All of those people are crazy, with the exception of Heather Cox Richardson, who's a disgraceful cynic”

    Listen from 1:01:09 · UFC White House event

  • Megyn Kelly

    Kelly argues Trump's Kennedy Center overhaul was an attempt to correct decades of left-leaning programming.

    “But Trump was trying to fix a center that had been pandering to the left for decades”

    Listen from 1:03:28 · Kennedy Center renaming

  • Rich Lowry

    Lowry warns that an elaborate domestic terror plot will eventually succeed.

    “It's only a matter of time until something like this succeeds, but it's an ongoing threat”

    Listen from 1:10:15 · UFC White House event attack plot

  • Charles C. W. Cooke

    Cooke argues that drones undermine perimeter-based security at venues and will force a rethinking of security.

    “But they are going to force us, if we haven't already, to rethink security”

    Listen from 1:10:53 · UFC White House event attack plot

  • Charles C. W. Cooke

    Cooke argues that European news and entertainment portray America in a relentlessly negative and inaccurate way.

    “what Europeans are told about America all the time by the news, but also by entertainment, is relentlessly negative”

    Listen from 1:18:30 · 2026 FIFA World Cup

  • Rich Lowry

    Lowry cites an NBC poll showing American pride at a record low of about 56 percent.

    “It's down, I think, a new low, 56% if you add those two categories up”

    Listen from 1:21:59

  • Rich Lowry

    Lowry argues the Giants players were subjected to compelled speech, and that writing the Bible verse was their dissent.

    “These players are being made to wear a social and political symbol that they don't support, that's counter to their Christian values”

    Listen from 1:29:19 · San Francisco Giants Pride cap controversy

  • Charles C. W. Cooke

    Cooke argues that coercive Pride messaging has driven a recent reversal in public approval of gay marriage.

    “some of the skepticism you're seeing not just toward pride month but toward gay marriage that has popped up in the last five years a reversal of approval of such things is the product of exactly this sort of conduct”

    Listen from 1:31:34 · San Francisco Giants Pride cap controversy

  • Rich Lowry

    Lowry calls the lifestyle Ratajkowski describes a luxury unavailable to most single mothers.

    “I don't think this is a reaction of most people to becoming single moms as having this extraordinary run of promiscuity as she describes it”

    Listen from 1:36:53 · Mother Effer (The Cut essay)

People

In the conversation

Discussed

Topics

More from The Megyn Kelly Show

From the publisher

Megyn Kelly is joined by Rich Lowry, editor-in-chief of National Review, and Charles C.W. Cooke, senior writer of National Review, to discuss what's behind President Trump's interest in a deal with Iran, the reaction to what we're learning about the deal so far, the Trump administration's need to focus on the economy ahead of the midterms, divisions within the Republican party over the Iran conflict and foreign policy, what the fractures could mean for the GOP primary in 2028, the new Obama Library portrait of Barack and Michelle Obama with Michelle front and center, why it always seems Michelle resents Barack, the ridiculous backlash to the UFC event at the White House, a Resistance historian claiming it's actually about racism, Sheryl Crow's absurd comments, Europeans visiting America for the first time for the World Cup and loving it, viral praise for the little luxuries of America and how friendly everyone is that many Americans take for granted, MLB players getting backlash for writing bible verses on their Pride Month hats, Emily Ratajkowski’s vile comments in a recent "The Cut" feature about being a slutty mom after her divorce, and more. Lowry- https://www.nationalreview.comCooke- https://x.com/charlescwcooke Supersure Insurance: Upgrade your business insurance to a year-round SuperAgency at https://Supersure.com/MegynRelief Factor: Reclaim your mobility and celebrate your freedom from aches this year by grabbing your $17.76 3-week QuickStart at https://ReliefFactor.com or by calling 800-4-RELIEF.Sundays for Dogs: Upgrade your dog’s food without the hassle—try Sundays for Dogs and get 50% off your first order at https://sundaysfordogs.com/MEGYN or use code MEGYN at checkout.SimpliSafe: Visit https://simplisafe.com/MEGYN to claim 50% off any new system!

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on September 29, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Politics·News Commentary·Society & Culture