How do you stop performing in your marriage? Somatic Healing in Intimate Relationships with Natalie Vartanian & Glenn Nielsen

Episode of Notes from the Edge · October 1, 2026 · 50 min

Lisa Lacy talks with coaches Natalie Vartanian and Glenn Nielsen about inherited marriage roles, somatic awareness, relationship agreements, and keeping romance alive.

Summary

Host Lisa Lacy interviewed married relationship and intimacy coaches Natalie Vartanian and Glenn Nielsen about how inherited roles of the "good wife" and "good husband" resurfaced in their marriage despite years of personal work and a deliberately designed relationship. Vartanian described gradually becoming a "muted version" of herself and over-functioning, while Nielsen, raised Mormon, described the pressure of being the provider after his electrical contracting business of 38 years collapsed in 2022, around the time they opened a retreat center.

The couple said that 15 months of counseling with a mentor before and after their wedding gave them a blueprint of ground rules and agreements they could return to during conflict, along with scheduled protected time for check-ins. Nielsen, drawing on Hakomi training and Peter Levine's Somatic Experiencing, argued that the body stores unprocessed trauma and that a reaction out of proportion to a partner's action usually signals an old wound rather than the partner's fault.

Vartanian argued that romance, which she called "lovership," must be deliberately cultivated, that the framing of relationships as "hard work" is destructive, and that fully committing to healing makes it happen faster. Lacy shared her own experience of a mental health collapse and her preference for transformational coaching over therapies such as DBT. The guests promoted their website, newsletter, and a forthcoming couples workbook, and closed by answering what roles they had performed in order to survive.

Chapters

  1. 0:04

    Introduction

    Lisa Lacy introduces the show and her guests Natalie Vartanian and Glenn Nielsen, framing the episode around inherited relationship roles.

  2. 2:31

    Noticing the pattern

    Vartanian describes feeling she was disappearing in the marriage, and Nielsen recounts their long friendship, intentional start, and the retreat center purchase.

  3. 9:13

    The provider role and a business collapse

    Nielsen discusses his Mormon upbringing, the 2022 collapse of his 38-year business, his grief, and how Vartanian began over-functioning as the good wife.

  4. 15:19

    Designing the relationship and agreements

    The couple explains how premarital counseling produced a blueprint of ground rules and agreements, and how scheduled check-ins help them handle conflict.

  5. 21:52

    What the body reveals

    Nielsen and Vartanian explain somatic tracking, trauma responses visible in couples, and why outsized activation often points to old wounds.

  6. 31:44

    Why the work feels scary

    Vartanian describes the comfort of familiar dysfunction and clients' fear of re-feeling past trauma.

  7. 33:38

    Choosing each other again

    Vartanian argues that romance must be cultivated, and the couple discusses friendship, updating agreements, and growing together.

  8. 39:37

    Reframing relationship work

    The guests reject the idea that relationships and healing must be grueling and urge listeners to fully commit.

  9. 44:33

    Resources and rapid-fire questions

    The guests share their website and upcoming workbook, then answer what roles they performed to survive and what people should talk about more.

Key points

What was said, by whom, with the exact words. Timestamps jump to the moment.

  • Natalie Vartanian

    Vartanian recounts that she gradually felt she was losing herself in the marriage and becoming a muted version of herself.

    “Like I felt like a muted version of myself and I'm a pretty big boisterous, like energetic person, you know?”

    Listen from 3:48 · Gender roles in marriage

  • Lisa Lacy

    Lacy recounts completing an expensive 18-month DBT program but not applying its skills because the modality did not fit her.

    “i had both those books memorized marshall in hand i still find her to be quite a genius but not one of those skills was being applied”

    Listen from 8:34 · Dialectical behavior therapy

  • Lisa Lacy

    Lacy says a transformational coach is what finally helped her move forward, which led her to become one.

    “big proponent of transformational coaches because that was what finally got me over the hump was a transformational coach”

    Listen from 9:13 · Transformational coaching

  • Glenn Nielsen

    Nielsen says his Mormon upbringing taught that a man must earn enough for his wife to stay home, shaping his provider role.

    “the teaching was if you're not making enough money to support your family so your wife can be at home and raise the kids get a second job”

    Listen from 10:14 · The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

  • Glenn Nielsen

    Nielsen describes feeling less than as a man and fearing his wife's love was conditional when he struggled financially for the first time.

    “Oh my God, for the first time in my life, I'm struggling financially here. And how do I get out of this?”

    Listen from 12:41 · Grief

  • Natalie Vartanian

    Vartanian says that while supporting Nielsen she over-functioned and piled more responsibility onto herself.

    “I'm over functioning. I'm over producing. I'm like, I got it. I got this. I got that. Don't worry”

    Listen from 14:24 · Gender roles in marriage

  • Lisa Lacy

    Lacy shares that as the sole financial provider she tried to do everything herself until she had a mental health collapse.

    “I was the sole financial provider. I was like superwoman, could do it all until I eventually had a full mental health collapse”

    Listen from 16:06 · Gender roles in marriage

  • Glenn Nielsen

    Nielsen credits Vartanian with insisting on a year of counseling with their mentor before marrying, which they used to design their relationship.

    “she said, I want to do a year before we get married of counseling with our mentor”

    Listen from 16:33 · Premarital counseling

  • Glenn Nielsen

    Nielsen says the agreements they made before marriage were a lifesaver when problems surfaced.

    “We were able to lean back on the agreements that we had agreed to back before we got married and all these other things”

    Listen from 17:44 · Relationship agreements

  • Glenn Nielsen

    Nielsen, citing Peter Levine, argues that wild animals naturally discharge trauma while humans' neocortex interferes.

    “It's like animals in the wilderness don't get traumatized. Domestic animals do. We do. Our neocortex gets in the way and things like that”

    Listen from 25:16 · Somatic experiencing

  • Glenn Nielsen

    Nielsen argues that the more intensely one is activated by a partner's minor action, the more likely the issue lies with oneself.

    “the higher level of activation, the more that thing, that, that thing is really, it's a good chance it has something to do with you, not your partner”

    Listen from 28:53 · Trauma responses and nervous system activation

  • Linked moment · 31:25Skip to 31:25 using a listen link in the info box.

    Glenn Nielsen

    Nielsen contends that operating from a wounded expectation of disappointment leads to breakup or a loveless marriage.

    “And if you keep operating from that, you will break up. You will end up in a loveless marriage, sleeping in different rooms”

    Listen from 31:25 · Wake Up or Break Up

  • Natalie Vartanian

    Vartanian says many clients resist healing work because they do not want to relive and re-feel past trauma.

    “i don't want to have to relive everything that i went through i don't want to have to re-feel it”

    Listen from 32:52 · Trauma responses and nervous system activation

  • Natalie Vartanian

    Vartanian argues that the romantic side of a relationship must be actively nurtured or it will die.

    “Lovership actually needs to be cultivated. It's like a plant. If you don't feed it, if you don't talk to it”

    Listen from 35:01 · Marriage and long-term partnership

  • Natalie Vartanian

    Vartanian recommends framing check-ins around what is working and what to do more of, since asking what is not working can put partners on the defensive.

    “And sometimes the what's not working is triggering for people, right? Because again, it puts them on defense”

    Listen from 38:23 · Relationship agreements

  • Natalie Vartanian

    Vartanian argues that the common framing of relationships as 'hard work' is destructive to how people approach them.

    “i think it's very destructive to the way we look at doing the work in relationship and why people are like oh it's hard work”

    Listen from 40:14 · Marriage and long-term partnership

  • Natalie Vartanian

    Vartanian claims that fully leaning into healing work makes results come faster than resisting it.

    “If you actually leaned in fully, and you just said, yes, and you did it, it will actually happen a lot faster and you'll get the goods a lot sooner”

    Listen from 41:52 · Trauma responses and nervous system activation

  • Natalie Vartanian

    Vartanian says she performed hyper-independence to survive and found peace and freedom after learning to accept help.

    “i was very much performing the i'm fine i got it i can do everything i'm independent i don't need anyone”

    Listen from 47:21 · Gender roles in marriage

People

In the conversation

  • Lisa LacyHost of Notes from the Edge; writer, trauma educator, executive advisor, and transformational coach
  • Glenn NielsenRelationship and intimacy coach and somatic therapist; former electrical contractor who runs a retreat center
  • Natalie VartanianRelationship and intimacy coach and co-founder of Wake Up or Break Up

Discussed

  • Peter LevinePsychotherapist who developed Somatic Experiencing
  • Marsha LinehanPsychologist who developed dialectical behavior therapy
  • Bob NewhartAmerican comedian, referenced for his 'stop it' therapy sketch

Topics

More from Notes from the Edge

From the publisher

What happens when the roles you learned to play in relationships start costing you yourself? In this episode of Notes From the Edge , Lisa Lacy sits down with relationship and intimacy coaches Natalie Vartanian and Glenn Nielsen for an honest conversation about marriage, somatic healing, nervous system regulation, inherited relationship roles, and what happens when couples stop blaming each other long enough to look beneath the conflict. Natalie and Glenn share how even after years of personal growth and entering their marriage intentionally, old conditioning began showing up. Natalie found herself becoming a muted version of herself, while Glenn wrestled with the enormous pressure of being the provider after the collapse of a business he had built over decades. Together, they explore why sometimes the intensity of our reaction has more to do with what is happening inside us than what our partner actually did, and how couples can begin creating a relationship based on conscious choice rather than inherited expectations. In this episode: • How the “good wife” and “good husband” roles can quietly create resentment and pressure • Why your nervous system may be reacting to something deeper than the argument in front of you • Somatic awareness and learning to recognize activation in the body • Taking responsibility for your own patterns without turning relationship work into blame • How couples can intentionally create agreements, connection, intimacy, and a relationship that allows both people to fully exist Connect with Natalie & Glenn: https://wakeuporbreakup.com Connect with Lisa: https://www.lisalacy.com What did you perform in order to survive? Welcome to the Edge. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info .

Summary, chapters and key points were generated from the episode transcript on October 1, 2026. Quotes are checked word for word against the transcript.

Categories: Relationships·Mental Health